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AC still getting HPF

06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
Hey guys, still no AC and getting HPF error.  I have primed, checked seacock, played with programs.  Maybe it's the pump?  Getting too hot for this to be a little problem anymore.  Thank you everyone.

Patrick 
Patrick
06 Rinker 270
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When the pump is running do you see water discharging out the thru hull?
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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    Nothing is running.  Just getting error
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    explore7425explore7425 Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    When you turn on the AC does the water pump come on? HPF is over heat. You may have to  let it cool down before you can test it again. If you can hear the pump come on after you turn the AC on and nothing is flowing then you either have a clog or air lock. In either case you should put water pressure into it by way of a hose into the outlet at the bow of the boat. This can clear a clog and it will definitely prime it. If the pump is not coming on then you need to check to see for voltage. To do this you need to have someone turn on the AC and you need to check to see if there is current at the pump when the computer tells it to activate. If there is current then you need a new pump. If there isn't current then the board in the unit is more than likely no good. 
    Bella Sabrina II  370EC
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    explore7425explore7425 Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    Actually go ahead and put water thru the outlet right now. That will most definitely cool the unit down right away then you can run your tests without over heating. 

    Bella Sabrina II  370EC
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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    When I flip the AC breaker I hear something kick on.  I have ran water through the discharge and saw it coming out of the bottom via the intake.  This is suppose to get rid of all air blocks yes?  I don't think it's overheated as it has not been on...
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    explore7425explore7425 Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    You really have to be looking at the pump when the AC is engaged. You may need another person. You should be right by the water pump when someone turns on the AC. You can hear the pump start to spin. The pump is magnetic so it will spin no matter what. If that pump is spinning and there is no water flow then it's either clogged or air locked. The compressor will come on even though there is no water. It will quickly over heat and you will get that fault code on the thermostat. The series of events on start up go as follows: 1. Turn on unit, 2. Fan engages, 3. Compressor turns on, 4. Water circulation pump engages. All these events are commanded from the board in the unit. You need to figure out at what stage is the error code coming and determine if it is the board or the individual apparatus's.

    Please tell me if this is what's happening:

    1.You turn on the AC and the fan comes on then the compressor engages. The unit runs for a bit then the code comes up. This is definitely a water flow problem.

    2. You turn on the AC unit and nothing happens at all (Maybe a click) then the error code. This would be a much more complex problem that may need a service call because there is a miriad of things that could be wrong. 

    Please keep in mind that the unit will over heat very quickly with no water flow and the more times you try to start it it gets even hotter. 
    Bella Sabrina II  370EC
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    explore7425explore7425 Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015

    When I flip the AC breaker I hear something kick on.  I have ran water through the discharge and saw it coming out of the bottom via the intake.  This is suppose to get rid of all air blocks yes?  I don't think it's overheated as it has not been on...
    Yes running the water through the intake will alleviate air locks but I am confused as to how you saw it coming from the intake as it's a seacock on the hull of the boat near the keel. 
    Bella Sabrina II  370EC
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    JC290JC290 Member Posts: 706 ✭✭✭
    Is your water pump running? Have some turn it on while you confirm the water pump comes on and check for flow coming from out let on pump towards compressor unit. Once you do that pull inlet line going in to compressor and make sure there is water coming thru that. Should it not run enough to do this try resetting control to factory settings and repeat above process
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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭

    When I flip the AC breaker I hear something kick on.  I have ran water through the discharge and saw it coming out of the bottom via the intake.  This is suppose to get rid of all air blocks yes?  I don't think it's overheated as it has not been on...
    Yes running the water through the intake will alleviate air locks but I am confused as to how you saw it coming from the intake as it's a seacock on the hull of the boat near the keel. 
    I keep boat on lift.  Thanks for help guys, going to give all this a try next weekend.  Keep you updated.
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    explore7425explore7425 Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    You have to run the water through while the boat is in the water. Doing it on a lift will not work. You will have to prime it every time you put it in the water. 
    Bella Sabrina II  370EC
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594 mod
    Patrick, I am guessing it is the priming that is your issue.  As you know, I keep mine on a lift as well.  Every time before I put mine up on the lift, I turn the AC seacock closed.  This keeps it primed.  The times I have forgotten, I either have to push water thru it from where it exits, while in the water &/or open the strainer and let some water in to help prime.  Of course the best way to prime is go for a ride on plane. 

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    I was priming the boat while on the lift and then putting it in the water to check AC.  Is that my rookie mistake and that would not prime it?  Thank you Explore.

    John...good to know about the seacock.  Getting adjusted to this lift is interesting. 
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    Lifes GoodLifes Good Member Posts: 465 ✭✭✭
    Priming is easy.  Here is a hint.  Put a landline water hose under pressure at the exit point of your reverse cycle outlet.  You know the one outside near the waterline.  Run water backwards thru the system and you'll hear the air exit from the bottom of your boat. Works 100% of the time. Or drive your boat to blow water thru the sytem.  Works 90% of the time.
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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    Did all that, on the lift.  Then put boat in the water and still no go
    Post edited by 06Rinker270 on
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594 mod
    you need to have the boat in the water when you put the hose on it with pressure.  Actually, if you put it in the water just a little (about half way to floating) then put the hose on the exit outlet.  What that will do is not give as much resistance (boat only part way in) but will be enough that the water will stay primed.  Believe me, I've had my fun with this one.  I never had this issue once with my 310 on the lift, but my 400 seems to always lose prime.  Quick turn off of the seacock works well each time.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    I will be going down there this weekend to give this a whirl.  Thank you John.  
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    explore7425explore7425 Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    I was priming the boat while on the lift and then putting it in the water to check AC.  Is that my rookie mistake and that would not prime it?  Thank you Explore.

    John...good to know about the seacock.  Getting adjusted to this lift is interesting. 
    You got it. The boat must be in the water to prime it. Take the advice from Dream Inn. Close the seacock before you lift the boat and don't re-open it until the boat is back in the water. I actually over heated both engines when they splashed my boat this year. Both pumps were air locked. All that stuff is designed to stay submersed. 
    Bella Sabrina II  370EC
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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    Thats weird you say that, for the first time I saw my engine temp go above 175 this past weekend once I lowered it in the lift...impeller is new.  Maybe that was the cause because it went back down after a short while.  Did you have to prime the engines?   
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594 mod
    oh boy, that is another topic in itself!  I've never had issues with temps getting warm from the whole lift thing.  Well, I have the VesselView and can monitor my water pressure.  Beginning of the year I seemed to not get the water pressure showing up (after I put new impellers in), so I felt the exhaust elbows (should be able to touch & keep your hand on them).  They were really hot.  Now, port engine cold pretty quick, but stbd had some issues.  So I opened up the blue plugs on the pump, heard some air pressure release and then it seemed ok...until next time down from the lift.  Well, the issue ended up being the wear on the pump over the years has caused it to not prime real well.  I think the old impellers will wear themselves into those grooves in time and the issues then is not there (or if I had left the original impeller in it would be fine, until of course it falls apart).  Another BOAT unit and I got it all back to go!  Definitely easy to install, just the cost of a new pump with the air actuation stuff is almost twice the amount of a regular pump.

    So, long story short, with the age of your boat, I'm betting it may be your seawater pump, not the impeller.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    Interesting...my difference from this story is I have started the boat 15 times plus already this year and had great temps.  Took a 5 hour trip and ran at an even 175 the whole time.  I dont even get a reading on my gauge until I leave the slip(yes I let us run for a while).  My confusion came from the high temp immediately after I changed the oil and filter.  I was under the impression that I needed to put more oil in than is required(especially with a hand pump that does not get it all out), thus I added about a half quart of too much oil and this is when I got the hot temps.  Would too much oil cause hot temps?   I took some out and temp went back to below 175 in idle.  I love this forum but dang it adds a lot of "to dos" on my list! Especially with a new to me boat.   
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594 mod
    If you add too much oil you can get foaming which could probably cause the heating issue.  Although I wouldn't think a half quart would cause that much problem.  Maybe @212rowboat will answer this one

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    MarkBMarkB Member Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Too much oil is not good. The components start dipping into the oil pan and cause frothing. The oil pump then draws a froth containing air and then you basically have no lubricant going  to engine. 

    By the way, yes sometimes the sea water system needs to be received of air, due to air locks. That happened to me 2 weeks ago. Installed a new impeller and started the engine while in the water on a ramp. Very little water pressure, so we bled air via a plug at top of engine and bingo water pressure came up. 

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Boat + Water = Fun"

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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man you gassers have way too many issues.
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ya gotta figure, water jackets are made to combat heat generated by combustion, not friction.  Oil combats friction.  That means your engines bottom end are being cooled by oil alone... Main bearings, cranks, rods, camshafts... The valvetrain has some relief with the water jackets in the heads between them and the combustion chamber, but they primarily cool off of oil, too.  So.. it's safe to say that oil is responsible for the really deep expensive parts being not only lubricated (to reduce friction heat by itself) but also cooling as well, returning to a pile of like material in that deep sump called the oil pan, where it cools off before being ingested again. 

    Mark nailed it.  Frothed oil is a very bad thing... Air bubbles don't lubricate. They don't cool, either. 

    I'd rather be a quart short than a quart high.  Any day of the week. For this reason, I'll fish the drain out of the bilgebefore I try to suck oil out.  I've no trust in that method. 


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    explore7425explore7425 Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    I only pull my boat in the winter. Every year they put it in and I go. This year I started both motors and within a couple minutes I got a solid alarm. I immediately checked the drive lube because that is usually the culprit fresh off a drive lube change. Drive lube was good so I went to the engine oil. Engine oil was good but boy it felt kinda hot down there so I touched the elbows off the risers. Wow they were really hot. It was obviously overheating. There is only 3 possibilities for a solid alarm anyway. This has never happened to me. It turned out that the water pumps were air locked. I just hooked up a garden hose to the top of the motors and blew them out. All was good after that. It really took me by surprise. I wasn't even thinking overheating. I have my impellers replaced every two years just to avoid any problems with the housing and all. I really don't understand why the flow censors didn't alarm before the overheat since the pumps weren't moving any water. 
    Bella Sabrina II  370EC
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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    I was not aware of a better way to drain the oil.   Manual says drain through crankcase but after a good look I thought there was no way.  Hand pump fail.  I was just over the OK mark on dip stick but after I took some out I was back at a good temp.  Thank you guys.  

    Is getting to a temp of 175 normal for idle?

    @Dream_Inn did you add Vesselview?  I don't have a visible water pressure gauge.  
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594 mod
    Patrick, the temp will be different depending on if you are fresh or raw water cooled, because a different thermostat is used for each.  175 is normal for a raw water cooled system.  Mine runs about 155-160, but is fresh water cooled.  (what I am calling fresh water cooled is any boat that the engine is using a closed-loop heat exchanger with antifreeze).

    VesselView, yes I added it in myself when I first bought this boat.  It will display about anything you'd ever desire from your engines.  Gives you in plain English what an alarm is if one goes off.  Well worth the money (I found mine on Ebay and the whole thing only cost me a few hundred).

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    Thanks John.  Boat is raw water.  I knew 175 was normal but it shot up to 175 way way quicker than normal.  Ill see what she does this weekend.

    I am going to do some research on VesselView.  I really like how it diagnoses the alarms rather than just beeps.  Appreciate all the help.
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    MarkBMarkB Member Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you saying it shot up quick, in neutral, at idle, from a COLD start? If I'm idling (warming up the boat) in neutral, it would probably take 10 - 15 minutes to hit 175F.  If you hit 175F and it stayed there, I think that shows the thermostat is working. But it should take a while to get up to that temp. Did you bleed out all the air?

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Boat + Water = Fun"

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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    I really have to thank you guys, putting her in the water then priming did the trick.  just in time for the sunny weekend.  Thank you.

    ill be starting her up Saturday and see how quick the temp gets this time...stay tuned 
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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