Electronic flares- Coast guard auxiliary safety inspection yesterday

Liberty44140

had our annual auxiliary safety check yesterday, we passed and got a sticker but had one hold up - the electronic flare and flag. Our inspector was insistent that the electronic flare for night and orange flag for day is not acceptable, you must have orange day flares too. Now remember that the two electronic flare manufacturers and west marine advertise that the flare flag kit covers requirements for day and night. I do keep real flares on board which are current so he passed us, but frankly I think he is dead wrong. Was stopped last summer by coasties for safety check on a friends boat, he only had electronic flare and flag and they passed him.

any experience with this? I’ll be contacting west marine and the manufacturer this week

LaRea

Does your light say that it complies with 46 CFR 161.013, which establishes standards for electric distress lights for boats?  If it does, then the inspector should have passed it.  

Liberty44140

Yep, it’s fhs Weems n Plath from west marine. It wasn’t the light that was the problem, it was that the flag didn’t qualify as a day distress signal 

LaRea

Well, the CFR specifies the minimum requirements.  I wonder if an individual flotilla can specify requirements that go beyond the CFR.

TonyG13

Flotillas can't specify any more than what Fed or States mandate.

@Liberty44140 - Didn't your Weems and Plath flare come with a flag? Mine did - and it met Fed Regs.

I just logged on and looked up the CGAux manual and it states an "Orange flag at least 3’ X 3’, with black square and ball" meets the daytime requirement...

Cableguy Greg

At least you can get a safety check. I have been trying for two seasons in Pittsburgh and nobody can be bothered. Oh well....

TonyG13

@Cableguy Greg - If you're serious about getting a safety check, use this form...

http://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php?unit=V-DEPT&category=i-want-a-vsc

...and if you don't get a response within a few days DM me and I'll start the ball rolling up the chain of leadership to get it done.

Liberty44140

Yep Tony, I’ve got that exact kit from weems n Plath that has the electronic flare and the 3 x 3 flag. I may write in to the local auxiliary captain. I did send a note to weems n Plath 

TonyG13

@Liberty44140 - On the paperwork you received the examiner's name and member number should be on it. If you DM me that info, I can give you his/her leadership.

LaRea

They got CG approval, what -- three years ago?  If the inspector is that far out-of-date, I wonder what else he/she is missing in the VSCs.  @Liberty44140 you should talk to the flotilla.  

Liberty44140

Thanks guys, this was out of the berea Ohio power squadron and so I’ve sent an email to their main examiners email box. I called the local coast guard station today and got a boarding officer on the phone who said that the electronic flare/flag kit is all I need as long as the electronic is working and no dead batteries. 

Cableguy Greg

@TonyG13 , I filled out that form 4 times last summer and twice this season so far. I got one response and he is not willing to come to my boat, which is only 1.5 miles from his marina to mine via land. For me to take my boat to him, I have to lock thru, which can take a while if I get caught behind a barge. It's unfortunate that I can't get anyone else to respond. I even emailed Robert Brandenstein (SO-VE 082-07) and didn't get a response. What is worse is that I am a member of the Pittsburgh Safe Boating Council which one of the inspectors is on the council with me and he won't even respond. I am trying to do the right thing, but their silence is deafening. @Stodge was also willing to help out. Maybe if the two of you made some calls, the checks would happen at a faster pace.

TonyG13

Liberty44140 said:

Thanks guys, this was out of the berea Ohio power squadron and so I’ve sent an email to their main examiners email box. I called the local coast guard station today and got a boarding officer on the phone who said that the electronic flare/flag kit is all I need as long as the electronic is working and no dead batteries. 

I'm sorry they screwed up, but I'm at least glad to hear it was Power Squadrons and not the USCG Auxiliary. Semper paratus.

TonyG13

Cableguy Greg said:

@TonyG13 , I filled out that form 4 times last summer and twice this season so far. I got one response and he is not willing to come to my boat, which is only 1.5 miles from his marina to mine via land. For me to take my boat to him, I have to lock thru, which can take a while if I get caught behind a barge. It's unfortunate that I can't get anyone else to respond. I even emailed Robert Brandenstein (SO-VE 082-07) and didn't get a response. What is worse is that I am a member of the Pittsburgh Safe Boating Council which one of the inspectors is on the council with me and he won't even respond. I am trying to do the right thing, but their silence is deafening. @Stodge was also willing to help out. Maybe if the two of you made some calls, the checks would happen at a faster pace.

That is not appropriate customer service. There are 17 Vessel Examiners in that Division. I'll kick a few tires and see what I can do.

Liberty44140

I got a nice note back from the squadron lead who was our inspector and he acknowledged that I was correct, he reached out to our marina manager to make sure to get the word out that bad information went out sat. Appreciated the quick acknowledgement and follow up. 

Stodge

Cableguy Greg said:

@TonyG13 , I filled out that form 4 times last summer and twice this season so far. I got one response and he is not willing to come to my boat, which is only 1.5 miles from his marina to mine via land. For me to take my boat to him, I have to lock thru, which can take a while if I get caught behind a barge. It's unfortunate that I can't get anyone else to respond. I even emailed Robert Brandenstein (SO-VE 082-07) and didn't get a response. What is worse is that I am a member of the Pittsburgh Safe Boating Council which one of the inspectors is on the council with me and he won't even respond. I am trying to do the right thing, but their silence is deafening. @Stodge was also willing to help out. Maybe if the two of you made some calls, the checks would happen at a faster pace.

Greg, I will PM you a contact at district 82.  

Stodge

@Liberty44140 Glad that got settled.  

I've also heard of examiners asking for receipts for the batteries in the flare to prove their age, which is also NOT a requirement.

As Tony pointed out, flare and flag are all you need to meet federal standards.

LaRea

In addition to all said above, I'll state the obvious ... @Liberty44140 is a correct-thinking person who keeps pyro flares aboard.  More dangerous, yes, but absolutely cannot be mistaken for anything other than an emergency.  

Liberty44140

Thanks @LaRea

Stodge

When I do a vessel exam I ask people if they have ever used a flare.  Most folks have not.  If you have never used a flare, and lets hope you never "need" to, please remember to hold it out over the water, not up over your head.  You'd be surprised how many surprised looks I get when I mention that.

PickleRick

I hate to ask a stupid question but as i only ever boat in a lake hours from the ocean(i rent boats when i go to the keys which come with all saftey that i knock on wood never needed and rental place never goes over) but we don't have coast guard, onky sc dnr and local authorities.  The dnr is more concerned about life jacket and paper work. Only once have i seen one ask for a fire extinguisher and that was 15 years ago.

So what all is needed for a sub 25 ft vessel? 

I have 3 fire extinguishers. 1 by helm, one in cabin, one auto one in engine hatch.

I dont have flares or flags as those are not required and most local boaters wouldn't know what they stood for(same for dive flags)

Is a vhf required?  

On small boars an oar is required but im not paddling a cabin boat, i have a tow boats card.

I also carry a float cushion and a life jacket for every passenger and it's always in reach
Anyone under 18 is required a life jacket on at all times while on the boat although in the cabin i just make sure they are by the door when we are at anchor.  We are usually only in the cabin at night when it's time for bed. 

What else do i need before a trip to the Charleston area, a new Garmin nav unit it top of the list and a good chart map.

Stodge

Vessels over 16 foot operating on coastal waters of the US or Great Lakes are required to have both day (flag or smoke) and night signals(flares)  for federal standards.  

However your state DNR, or even the county sheriff may have different regulations.  

VHF is not required, but I highly recommend you have one.  Often they will work where cell phones won't.

You can look at the inspection form used for vessel safety checks at http://forms.cgaux.org/archive/a7012.pdf  Page 2 has the explanation of the required items.

LaRea

Always carry flares.  You're right that some inland boaters might not recognize it or pay attention.  But if a rescue team is looking for you at night, a flare is your best friend when you need to vector them to your boat quickly.  

Here's another example that I know from personal experience.  Suppose you're anchored in the middle of 500 boats watching fireworks, and there's a medical emergency.  How will first responders know which boat is yours?  A flare is unmistakable.