Reprise: inboards vs. sterndrives on the Rinker 342

raybo3

@Liberty44140 point well taken. However (lol) it did turn into diesels vs gas vs inboads vs outdrives. But you are correct it was meant to be OD's vs IB's

Handymans342

Well they used V drives too with big blocks. 

Handymans342

DanD2 said:

Hey Handy......you never stop do you!!!!

I was just responding to Al asking him why they didnt do any testing with the diesels and outdrives by the magazines and not the tests Al did personally. Then I was attacked as usual

zaverin1

I like inboards and I like sterns
my bros in-law almost 14ft beam sea ray express handles amazing at low and high speed 

he has tuned props and move that sucker 33mph wit but he can plane in seconds and stay on plane dang near 12mph 

zaverin1

Docking Inboard with rudders is only done  utilizing both engines 
since at low idle speed it won’t help steering at all lol

Dream_Inn

Handymans342 said:

Dream is a moderator and he dont do what Ray does!

Not exactly sure what you meant from the comment, but again, just way off topic.  There is definitely moderation that I do in the background here.  I've removed comments, users, and I do look at every single post.  I also get PMs corresponding to the constant bickering, between mostly 2 people on here.  To the point that I do sometimes just go in and remove it (hey, it's an open forum and I'm a moderator too, so I do what I need to).  I also work directly with Rinker on things and with local dealers and believe it or not, a lot of "work" goes behind Rinkervous each year.  Handy will never get under my skin because I've met the guy and know at times he likes to just agitate people for fun, but is a good guy.  Just hard to see that sometimes in only words typed here.

Oh, and like many others, I sure do appreciate all the stuff Raybo does here! 

Enough said!

raybo3

There are a lot of things that goes on behind the scenes no doubt. I (and I  know DI) do it because we love the forum and dont want to see happen what happened to the old RBO. Not everyone may like what gets posted but hey it is what it is. This forum takes up a lot of my time and a lot of Dream_Inn's time with no pay, perks or benefits except its the best boating forum on the internet. If anyone has a problem with what I post feel free to send me a PM not to someone else.  

Handymans342

raybo3 said:

@Handymans342 who's nutz???? You must be looking a mirror. No F'n way your diesels are faster than gas again NO WAY!!!!!

See this is what I'm talking about. And Raybo is guilty. I never said my setup was faster than a gas 342 with outdrives. It just got on plane faster than a 342 gasser. And its not my fault it burned 18 GPH at cruise speed. The gas guys are just jealous. We timed the seconds to plane with the surveyor, broker and buyers on board durring the sea trial. The surveyor was shocked as he has been on a lot,of diesel boats but what shocked him the most was the diesels mounted to Bravo 2s. He had never rode on one. He did say that Rinkers were very good boats. 

Dream_Inn

So, on topic, what classifies "on plane"?  Seriously, when timing "getting on plane", when do you say you are on plane?  There could be at least a second or two difference between two people on the same boat saying when it got on plane.  I have timed mine with my new props and it is 6 seconds to get on plane, but that is not the 33mph on plane that I cruise at.  To me it is the first feel of "on top of the water".  Handy, I agree that the B-2s, with those great props, are just amazing!!  I love it every time I push the throttles!

raybo3

@Dream_Inn you have Bravo 2's? Can you feel a difference between 2's and 3's? Handling? 

Handymans342

raybo3 said:

@Dream_Inn you have Bravo 2's? Can you feel a difference between 2's and 3's? Handling? 

Maybe he can put his B3s on this weekend and try them out! LMAO

raybo3

@Handymans342 I am curious the difference between 2 prop's vs 4 prop's....

Handymans342

raybo3 said:

@Handymans342 I am curious the difference between 2 prop's vs 4 prop's....

You can only tell the difference if you have diesels Ray. LMAO

Liberty44140

Dream_Inn said:

So, on topic, what classifies "on plane"?  Seriously, when timing "getting on plane", when do you say you are on plane?  There could be at least a second or two difference between two people on the same boat saying when it got on plane.  I have timed mine with my new props and it is 6 seconds to get on plane, but that is not the 33mph on plane that I cruise at.  To me it is the first feel of "on top of the water".  Handy, I agree that the B-2s, with those great props, are just amazing!!  I love it every time I push the throttles!

Good question. For me, plane is when I am fully planed and pulling the throttles back. I take my throttles to around 3/4 (no tabs) and consider myself "there" when I am throttling back to maintain around 4000 RPM. On this topic where you start from makes a difference. Once I leave the no wake zone I usually come up to 1500-2000 rpm and then ask anyone on board if they are ready, then I throttle up to plane. I also bring it up slowly so its probably 3-4 seconds before I am throttled up and then maybe 6 before I am throttling back and on plane. Of course I notice a difference after a good fuel fill up.

LaRea

Time to plane doesn't mean much.  So what if a boat planes 3 seconds faster.  A boater like Handy would save like 30 seconds a season.  ;-D

Do inboards plane faster than sterndrives?  

BTW my goal in re-posting the PMY article wasn't to start a flame war.  We have a lot of new 342 owners lately, and I wanted to introduce them to @alswagg and the other experts on this forum.  

212rowboat

the design of planing hulls has a 'pad' located from midship to aft... when you're riding on the pad, you are on plane.  basically it's a place where the geometry flattens out dramatically and where all the lines point to in effort to direct flow to the pad.  either you're on the pad or you aren't, which is to say either you're on plane or you're not. 

Handymans342

I dont think inboards ever get to a plane position. They always look like they are plowing the water. 

212rowboat

the Big Rock Blue Marlin tourney is going on right now out of Morehead City- cash prize is $2.5M... some dude the other day brought a $531k fish to the docks for being the first one back with a 500lbs+ fish... there were three of them that day and it was a flat out race to the docks and scale.  

you want to see a 50+' boat that can haul some butt?  have a $531k fish onboard and racing two others racing you home.  

those things point skyward when under WOT... they ARE planing, though.. the 'pad' is designed exactly for that.  the designers know the boat will spend 90+% of it's time below 10kmph, but.... when it needs to sprint? it can... nobody said it would be comfortable during, though.  

212rowboat

Liberty44140

Inboards plane is different. We fully plane and we get on top of the water which is why we use a lot less fuel. Inboard plane but its more of a plow which is why they handle chop better, but use A LOT more fuel. They do get to their plane faster because the props are farther forward thus they dont work as hard to get the bow down. Easy to tell if a boat has drives or inboards watching them on the water as again, we are on top and they plow. 

rasbury

but diesels are better right?

Handymans342

rasbury said:

but diesels are better right?

They are in Rams

PickleRick

Has anyone seen any of these zf 2 speed gearboxes?  I've seen pics of them matched to a cummins with both konrad and inboard applications.

Im playing with some PD TDI diesels.  They are a 2.0 4 cyl. Cast iron block, aluminum head.  East to wire and tune.  BHW code engine found in 04 and 05 passats in North America.

They weigh maybe 400 lbs. In stock configuration they make 130hp/240 ftlbs torque.  With a simple mail in tune shes 170hp/300 ft lbs tq.  No need for internal upgrades until 200+ hp.

My current issues are cooling the exhaust and gearing.  I have a volvo penta 290 outdrive laying around. Plenty strong enough.  Id like to find a way to adapt a small 4 cyl turbo diesel water cooled manifold and a cummins 4bt hx35 similar sized turbo with water jacket to my motor. 

Im still researching the zf gear boxes but it would be ideal to use the gear box in one gear ratio for low hull speed cruising and then push button or based on rpm/load electronic shift to pop her up on plane and run on plan 2400 to 2800 rpms to really squeeze out the nmpg.   

From a modification stand point the inboards offer more gear options but stern legs give the best space onboard.  

zaverin1

Guys
there is a hull and application  for gas and diesel power plants.

Handymans342

I like your thinking Rick

Dream_Inn

raybo3 said:

@Dream_Inn you have Bravo 2's? Can you feel a difference between 2's and 3's? Handling? 

well, I've driven my boat with boat sets of drives (also just rode on both without driving).  Honestly I can't feel much difference.  I may have a little more (not sure of the exact word) "torque or movement" at idle just in gear that I notice when docking.  I can also stay on plane at a little bit less speed (but it may just be because of my 4 blade prop, or I believe the B-3 boat may have had a little more weight on it.  We both cruise together quite a bit and both burn fuel very close to the same (I think he gets a little better fuel burn, but may also be because he is usually tucked in behind my boat).  I also boat with a 390 (basically same boat) that is Volvo diesel.  It's fun to do comparisons between all 3 boats.  The diesel definitely gets on plane slower, but I'm pretty sure he takes it easy getting on plane.  & yes he burns somewhere between 1/2 to 2/3 of what we burn, but usually at a speed of 3-4 mph slower.

PickleRick

Im a cruiser. Ive learned one major philosophy about life in general thanks to sailing and it applies to most real life situations, especially on cabin cruisers(sail and power) If you're in a rush you're doing it wrong. 

When i semi retire in 7 years the goal is to motor from chas sc to the dry tortugas (or Bahamas) launching in the fall and returning come spring.  MPGs are what its all about.  The jump between Miami and bimini is some of the best fishing area on earth.  Why waste all that fishing time on plane?  Put on the auto pilot and troll at hull speeds!!!  You're still going faster than most of the sailboats making the jump.

Unless battery technology makes leaps and bounds by then diesel is the long distance answer. Sadly thanks to the epa the older dirtier diesels are both more efficient and easier to work on than new ones not to mention more reliable.

Handymans342

I couldnt agree more but I will be doing it in a fifth wheel. 😁

PickleRick

My daily driver is a vw diesel and my tow rig a 7.3 ps diesel. If the 7.3 dies the only option that is logical is to drop an 12v 6bt in its place.   

Every land cruiser i have ever owned i converted diesel. Once i work out the bugs with cooling and gearing my 23.5 ft cruiser will also be diesel.   It is however, very nice knowing that if my current 5.7 dies i hop on my favorite local for sale site and buy a 500 dollar 5.7, swap out a few freeze plugs, , gaskets, accessories and keep her going for a few more seasons. No need for a cam swap if it came from a truck. No need to swap freeze plugs and gaskets or even water pump if i add a 1400 dollar off the shelf generic closed loop system.  

You cant even buy a cummins 4bt bread truck for less than 3500 anymore.  I dont consider a diesel a viable option unless you can get parts locally at any given auto shop. Obviously if you have a million dollar yacht marine/marina prices are of no concern but those of us who boat on a budget it's important.  While all electronics on a gasser should always remain marine speciific many many other common items dont.

In diesel conversions i never really worried about the marine electronis as diesel doesn't have that same explosive aroma found in gasoline.

In my diesel conversions i always try to adapt the back of the block to look and fit like a SBC because a SBC will fit anywhere.

Dude_Himself

IS @PickleRick in CHS?