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Anchoring in wind

WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
Planning our first anchor out of the season for tonight. Forecast as follows: Wind northwest 10 knots increasing to northwest 15 this morning then diminishing to north 10 near midnight. Wind becoming light near noon Sunday then becoming northwest 10 Sunday evening.
Our usual strategy for a night like this would be to find a marina and toddle off to the bar....but currently not possible. Most marina's not accepting transients and bars and restaurants all still closed for Covid. So anchor out it is.
There are a couple of spots I can get into the lee, the most promising is on the south east side of an island that faces a south shore on a narrows. Admiral is a little nervous so my plan is to use two anchors, the regular Lewmar Delta and a second, lighter, fluke style.
As per the diagram below, plan is to use main anchor and let her swing with the wind and then head slightly more due north and set the second anchor so that as the wind changes overnight I'll be between the two.
Thoughts?

"Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)

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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,924 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Willhound , I recommend downloading this anchor alarm app. No more worries with it!

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/anchor-alarm-with-late-set/id1292028990

    2008 330EC
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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Absouletly @aero3113 . I use an Android phone but started using this two years ago.
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.webmajstr.anchor&hl=en

    I sleep much better at night, and I don't need to leave my power hungry chartplotter on all night, which I'd never hear the alarm on anyway with the cabin door closed.
    I like that I can just open one eye and quickly check the phone and go back to sleep.
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,924 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yea, it saved us the other day. Was pretty windy, we drifted and the alarm notified us. I look back and there was another boat in our path about 30 yards away. Once you know how to set everything in the app it’s great!
    2008 330EC
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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm currently anchored in 13 feet with almost all 50 feet of my chain out. Not enough scope I realize but it's holding reasonably well. I like to stay on the chain if I can. Also using a bridle that has my hook point almost at the water. We've dragged a slightbit from me stepping out on the swim platform and raising the bow. One thing I've always noticed about this boat is that with the high bow and side curtains up it wags its tail like mad. We're hooked well but I'm swinging through about a 140 degree arc.
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,623 mod
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    tonystoytonystoy Member Posts: 99 ✭✭✭
    I’m curious about that alarm app...how well does it work? Obviously it has to compensate for the swaying back and forth but how much leeway does it give you for drift? I’m more concerned when I’m on the hook close to a beach or other boats.
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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @LaRea no I have not. Looks interesting though. Does it help with the sway? Here's a short vid showing what we put up with today.
    https://youtu.be/gUUWlI_mhHQ
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @tonystoy you can set your scope and sway to whatever you want as well as drift. Works well but does use some battery as it constantly accesses the GPS chip on the phone. I just plug my phone into a 12 volt accessory plug near my bunk at night. Still uses way less juice than a chart plotter.
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We tried three different anchorages and finally threw in the towel and retreated to the marina for the night. Admiral was getting antsy and every where I tried I just couldn't get a hook set that I was happy with. This vid was coming back to the marina and was actually one if the smoother parts of the trip.
    https://youtu.be/gVqyirjcBAM
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have yet to stay on the hook...the fresh water boating I do would really not be a problem but the coast...I probably could not sleep!
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    IanIan Member Posts: 2,805 ✭✭✭✭
    I could but the Admiral wouldn’t.....

    Regards,

    Ian

    The Third “B”

    Secretary, Ravena Coeymans Yacht Club

    https://www.rcyachtclub.com/

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's just lack of experience on my part..I'd be afraid of waking up high and dry on a sandbar waiting for the tide to come back in
    ..
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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Knowledge is key. I know little about tides except to check the tables when surf fishing. But I think I'd get a handle on it once I spent time in a tidal area. Weather reports and warnings are vital. Leaning different anchoring techiques, hence the post.  But the most important part is your brain. Like our decision yesterday to abandon the idea of anchoring out and head back to the marina. 
    Even coming back was interesting. Coming up the fairway I had to keep the power on to avoid getting sideways. Coming around the corner to my slipway there was a guy that had gotten sideways trying to get into his slip. Without looking back he slapped it in reverse into my path. That's when I found out my horn wasn't working. My bad, I was sure I checked it this spring. Another job on the list. A quick holler and he looked around and hastily put it back in forward and I was just narrowly able to get around him. I felt bad for a second but not much when I saw he had three screaming kids running all over the boat and one in his lap while his wife sat playing on her phone. While he's trying to dock.... We got safely in and were enjoying a cocktail when another guy two slips down tried to back his 34 foot  Doral Prestancia into his slip. Twin drives and he's sawing the wheel madly back and forth. After two attempts he also got sideways and just about planted his stern on my anchor pulpit. I jumped up to help but as I started heading down the finger dock he jumped off his boat onto my my dock while his three drunken friends sat and watched. By now a crowd had gathered and we managed to get him turned and into his slip. So much for social distancing. And then my dock neighbour shows up walking to collect his shore power cord. He had tried coming in earlier and also got sideways and after several attempts he gave up and docked at another slip that was out of the wind. He came back early this morning to put her in his proper slip. Some of the guys were laughing at him but I congratulated him for using his head and taking the better course of action. 
    In all three cases it was lack of experience and in one case for sure, alcohol.
    Not boasting (well, maybe a little) but by taking my time I was able to back my single engine 270 that loves to turn sideways in the wind right into the front of my slip where I then hopped off and backed her in the rest of the way by hand while the admiral helped with a boat hook. I've probably practiced the manoeuvre a hundred times. And I love my beer but had only two the entire day until back at the dock. 
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You're in Canada....if you're drinking any bud, miller or coores products that doesn't count as alcohol😝





    Glad to hear you had a great weekend on the water even with your plans changing.  


    What kind of anchor and how much/size chain do you run? 

    That 270 is going to catch some wind.  Took me a few seasons to learn how to scope properly.  Being in all mud and a danforth anchor, setting is not an issue.  My issue was not enough scope and the bow yanking the anchor out. 

    I really need to work on setting up a bridal when im in wind on rinker, these flat bottom hulls really sway in a blow.


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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    @PickleRick in Canada even our "light" beers are minimum 4%.....

    It's the original Lewmar Delta anchor with 50 feet of 5/16" chain and 150 feet of 5/8" 8 braid line. I upgraded the rode my second season. I try and stay on the chain only because I'm lazy. My gypsy is worn (and no longer available) and with the new smooth line it sometimes slips at the splice which requires me to go forward on the deck and help it while the Admiral runs the windlass.
    Yesterday I was in 5 feet of water with pretty much all 50 feet of chain out so a 10 to 1 scope. Should have been plenty but the bottom was pretty much loon sh!t so it just wouldn't hold. And there were a pile of other boats all in a small area on the lee side of an island, so had to watch the sway.
    Still windy today so rather than head out again we've spent the day cleaning and organizing the boat. And having a few of those "light" beers.😎
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Could you fit 3/8 chain on your windlass?  That chain may not be heavy enough.  Granted I've never used a delta and my danforth requires much more chain than a delta. I only have about 25 ft 3/8 chain and either and 18 or 22 ft danforth.  I cannot remember the exact weight.  With 50 ft of total scope in 10 to 15 ft(very muddy clay bottom) it takes lots of wake to drag.  At close to 75 ft i will have issues pulling anchor out in the morning after a bad storm.

    This is my experience on a 26ft 7000 lbs saiboat, not as much windage as a 270 with enclosure
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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No. The gypsy is gauged for 5/16". I have the 0860 as per attached from the manual. The other models are either European in millimetres or 1/4" so even smaller.

    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel like rinkers(and other equal brand cruisers) are mostly set up for day anchoring then going back to the marina at night, not so much anchoring in whatever the weather throws at you.  

    My advice for upping 1 size of whatever is recommended for your boat size comes from sailboats who cruise and stay on the hook for months at a time.  

    You may be stuck mastering the art of setting a plow anchor and 2x the recommended scope.

    These Tupperware boats like to bounce in chop which pops the anchor right out of her hold. 

    What kind of floor are you anchoring in?
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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    It was (and smelled) like loon sh!t. Had to hose off the anchor and pulpit when we returned. Pure evil slime. And it was about an 18 to 22 knot wind.
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    That's some good wind.  How heavy is your anchor?

    Im usually stuck splashing mine a few times to get all the clay off before securing.  


    In mud i love the danforth fluke style anchor.  This is also the same style anchor all the rental boats ive used in the keys have.  I dont sleep on boats in the keys but you need a really good hold in sand when fishing the bridges.  @J3ff can tell you all about the tide change current at the bridges.  Its mostly sand, coral and grass.

    Im in deep mud where i sleep over night on a near weekly basis.  Some areas i need an anchor where she drags a bit before digging in.  Leaves and debris have gathered in the coves  here since the lake was built before the 60s.

    The clay under the puff mudd is where i need to be.

    Your plow style anchor(what i think you have) may be having the same issue in the soft mud i have, especially in areas without current to push out all the leaves,growth and debris on the muddy floor.

    A 16lbs fluke with 1/4 inch chain is rated to hold up to a 27 ft boat, id step up to a 25 on your 5/16.





    Ive always felt the fluke is very easy to set and unless the rode gets wrapped up in itself it will reset in a wind shift.  I really need to check my anchor weights.  The hinged plow i have is 30 plus and i have 3 different fluke style anchors 16lbs and up.

    Fortress anchors are about the only anchors that hold better than a fluke in mud but are much more expensive and not as easy to set.

    The fluke you just drop, let out your scope, tie your cleat and open a beer.

    If i was and active long distance cruiser id have both a fluke and plow at all times on board, both over sized plus a smaller spare.  They really compliment one another.  The fluke costs much less to replace if/when you lose it.  Great for tossing out when you dont know what's under you.  I my area that could be an under water forrest.

    Post edited by PickleRick on
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,590 mod
    I'll add, try the prusik knot on your rode and then tie off on bow cleats.  Hands down, best thing since sliced bread!

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    WillhoundWillhound Member Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Dream_Inn yep. Always do. With my 50 feet of chain I've even built a bridle with a chain hook on it.
    @PickleRick I think this is my anchor. 22 lbs. Factory original I think,  haven't weighed it but feels about right. Next size up is 35 lb and I know it's not that heavy.  My second anchor is a fluke style. Agree, holds like crazy but hard to set in some of the deep water here.

    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270 (Sold)
    2018 Cherokee 39RL Land Yacht (Sorry...)
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    boatman37boatman37 Member Posts: 806 ✭✭✭
    I just bought a 14lb-ish Delta just like that a couple months ago. Have about 8' of ~3/8 chain and new 200' of 1/2" 3 strand. Never had a problem anchoring with our old fluke style anchor but yesterday we were in about 10' of water in no wake with very little current. Anchor drug on me. I had about 40' of line out. Couldn't put much more out because it is a narrower tributary. Boat is a 2006 Crownline 250CR, about 7500lbs without us in it as it sat in the water. 
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    I dont think ive sat an anchor in more than 45 ft of water.  60 ft is pretty deep for my choice areas of the lake.

    With your size boat id go bigger if it were me.  

    Sleeping on the hook on a regular basis makes me want oversized everything.
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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,924 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have 30’ of chain. Do I let out the 30’ of chain, then 7-10 times the depth of the water or does the 7-10 times the depth include the chain? My 242 only had a couple of feet of chain so this is new to me.
    2008 330EC
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,590 mod
    aero3113 said:
    I have 30’ of chain. Do I let out the 30’ of chain, then 7-10 times the depth of the water or does the 7-10 times the depth include the chain? My 242 only had a couple of feet of chain so this is new to me.
    The 7-10 includes the chain, but don't forget to add the height of your bow into the equation, not just water depth.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,924 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have black tape 30' on the rode and 30' of chain so when I anchor I'm usually around 8ft do I make sure the tape is in the water =60' if I'm staying the night I go to the second tape in the water =90' and tie off to a cleat. Will try the prusik knot this year.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    35 lbs is extremely heavy when you're hoisting by hand.

    I really need a bigger boat with a windlass so i can feel all of you guys big boat problems😂

    Are you set up for break away?  If not look into it if you replace with a $$$ new heavier anchor
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