Underpowered boats

YYZRC

I burn about 100 litres per hour and I assume a 360 is similar so you were putting on 150+ hours per year @Michael T - well done!!

Michael T

Changes with speed and generator use too.

PickleRick

If im burning 25k a year in fuel ill need a 2nd job

skennelly

@Michael T - You are way out of my league.  LOL

Black_Diamond

Gas in Canada is almost 30% more than in the USA too. 

Michael T

......you fire-up a couple of 502s to 4K RPM and the $100 bills just fly out of the cockpit....it doesn't take long to burn a tank if you want to get somewhere "express" style!

Michael T

@Black_Diamond.....just remember if you guys visit it's -30%+ .....as Ray would comment - just sayin'....

212rowboat

there is a wealthy fella at the end of my street- on water.. has a 36' fountain with twin 502's that are performance custom built, straight stainless pipes through hull- whole nine yards... the weekend before last i was scooping the 212 at the ramp adjacent him when he fired them up... they sound beautiful.... i mean- mean.  

i was busy doing my thing but vaguely listening to him approach the channel and hook the 180 that points him under the bridge, and he slammed into the throttle... the sounded doubly mean... when i finished hooking the boat i looked up and realized he was struggling to get on step.... sounded mean? yes... but he was at least at 5k RPM and that thing was moving no more than 20mph fighting to get up.... now when he did? he was gone long gone... 

always a balance, huh?  he's got massive nibrel props- cleavers, likely 7 or 8 blades, likely nearing 30" in diameter... i can't guess the pitch.... he is clearly overpropped says the guy watching him trying to get out of the hole... the same guy who saw him up on top and listening to the crackling pop of those cammed engines ripping at least 60mph thinks differently... 

re: economy.. my 212 had a 4.3 originally... massively and absurdly under powered.  atop that, it would take me near a full 42gallon tank to run to an inlet 14 miles away and back.  it was severely loaded down no matter how it was propped... the 357 in there now? i can make that run at around 40mph with the engine not struggling one little bit, and burn 11 gallons.   the v8 simply produces more torque where it's needed.  

i've been around plenty of 383's, and..... they are fantastic in a certain RPM range, but i find the range is about useless for cruising.  now, the cam is everything as is the valve geometry and how much compression generated... and the ones i've experienced were built for higher RPM's- where they flat out produce.... but they are flat as can be until you get near 4500RPMs.  meanwhile, that merc built 357 is solid throughout the band.. 

with a ron hill marine pleasure five in 19p i can tickle 53mph at 5kRPM, but that isn't the impressive thing... the impressive thing is i can hold plane at 2400RPM and stick on the pad without any struggle at 2600~2800... it's out of the hole within the boats length... the engine is producing an estimated 300~315HP on a 700cfm 4bbl... electric fuel pump, re-jetted carb, and higher ratio roller rockers- nothing special, but solid engine... if running a carb, this is the engine that should have been delivered with this boat.  the 305/314 i ran was strong too, but not as strong throughout band... the 4.3? struggled... big time.  

question: are rinkers delivered with props or is that a function of the dealership like it is with most outboards? ..... the props they put on them are, at best 'general purpose' props that simply hit the range of the engine, and that is often done on paper alone- not with a loaded boat (because they've no clue how you'll load it).  I've been through God only knows how many props.... and i've narrowed it down to two at this point- and i'll swap it depending on what i'm doiing... given, mine aren't a $1k investment like they are for most of y'all.  both of them have distinct purpose and it doesn't overlap much at all, but the difference in pitch is slight..... all about the geometry. 

Black_Diamond

Was that boat running surface drives?  If so, they are horrible out of the hole. Once up and going: hang on. They are also really poor at low speed handling too. One trick pony. lol

Handymans342

Michael T said:

@Black_Diamond.....just remember if you guys visit it's -30%+ .....as Ray would comment - just sayin'....

Whenever they open the friggin borders!

212rowboat

Black_Diamond said:

Was that boat running surface drives?  If so, they are horrible out of the hole. Once up and going: hang on. They are also really poor at low speed handling too. One trick pony. lol

yes it is.... the kind that has the struts on either side and in between.  I've been told it's and 80mph boat... that would be surprising given it's size and the gasoline engines.  his 'prior' fountain had twin 1000+HP diesels.  IT was beyond doubt an 80mph boat... my skiis would run 70mph, and i couldn't hang with him at all.... and he was nowhere near WOT... 

Black_Diamond

Yup. Those were Arneson surface drives. 

skennelly

Inline fuel filters.  Mallory $24.95 or Sierra $45.95 or OEM $54.95.

Which?

Black_Diamond

Personally: Sierra or Merc. I buy the mercs.  You’ll need the brass barbed fittings too. They screw into each end of the filter. 

skennelly

Can I reuse the barb fittings from my old filter?

Black_Diamond

Should be able to!

Michael T

Yes, likely Arneson. Mercury made surface drives for a while too. Even on "conventional" drives big (tall) props make a huge difference in getting out of the hole. Back in the early 90s I beat an Emerson Fittipaldi with twin built 502s with my Rinker 190 390 HP Bravo I on a dare match between two bridges. By the time he had gotten onto plane my Rinker was doing 70 MPH. He never came close. Longer race and he would have won. Big waves and he would have won. But I wouldn't have raced him under those conditions. He may have been smart enough to buy that boat but not smart enough to do the math on how long it would take him to get going over that distance with those props. He kept his pink slip - I am a merciful guy, particularly when the other guy starts crying -  but it cost him a $hitload of $$$$$ buying our beer, shooters and hors d'oeuvres that night at a waterfront bar. :-) 

mattie

Emerson was the best - wonder what he's doing now?

My father-in-law was a big wig with UAP/NAPA auto parts. We always had free Indy tickets to Toronto & Detroit. Met Emerson, Al Jr, Mario, all those guys. It was a blast. Lots of neon ball caps in the 90's.



Re: Underpowered boats:
Think it is purely price point & dealers filling required manufacturer orders. For years - many boat buyers just bought what was in front of them in the parking lot. Still do...

If you option a boat out with best available motor/drive combos avail - you probably add 1/3 or more to the price. Just enough to make it unaffordable for spontaneous peeps. Or they move up to the next size model with basic motors. Repeat, repeat,...

Thus, you end up with a ton of used boats with basic motor combos. 

skennelly

This was my cap I just replaced.  Definitely some corrosion.

rinker270nb

I added 100 HP and it solved all my problems.  A new boat entirely.  That engine was tired and way underpowered.  

skennelly

@rinker270nb - I'll sell before I repower it.  Selling is probably going to happen in the next couple seasons...we have been talking about going to a bigger boat.

cme4brain

YYZRC said:

I had a 2000 Four Winns 268 Vista with a 5.7 GSi and DP-SM and it hauled a$$. Moving to the 330 was a real disappointment performance wise. I didn’t realize how spoiled I was. 

What do you have in your boat @skennelly ?

I question whether the Rinker hull designs are as good as competitors with respect to performance/planing. 

I have a 2007 Rinker 350 with twin 350's and B2 drives and factory 3-blade props, I can hit 36 mph properly trimmed at WOT.  The cost from the factory to upgrade from the 350's to the desired 496's was what- $30,000?  Some customers can barely afford a six-figure cruiser new, so if they can save money on the engines that would buy other options (bow thruster, bigger generator, windlass, GPS), then they will do it.  Those of us buying used- me- are stuck with their original choices.  I have recently purchased but not yet installed the Hills marine 4-bladed props to help me get on plane, even if it costs me 1-2mph top end speed.  My boat is underpowered in some respects, but I am getting 1mpg on plane at 30mph, good enough for me to drive a 38-foot boat.

cme4brain

Michael T said:

@skennelly.....it is all price point. I may have mentioned it before there is a very well known huge former Rinker dealership that used to bring in EC360s with 350 Mags - which IMO is just criminal. As I always say ....get the most HP your boat will accept as I never heard anyone say I have too many HP. Gas certainly was noticeable though with my EC360's twin 502 magnums which cost $900.00+ to fill-up. I budgeted $25,000.00 per season for fuel alone and often over shot that. BUT as has been said if you can't afford the costs don't boat! :-)

I get your point, but once the boat is built, the used boat buyer is stuck with the original boat choices.  I will bet that 90% of all Rinker 350's were built with the lower MerCruiser 350's in them to save (estimated $30,000) initial purchase price.  That also means that 90% of the Rinker used boats for sale - like the one I bough- are stuck with that original purchase choice.  It may be nigh unto impossible to find my boat with 496's in them.  I boat on the ICW and rarely into the chesapeake bay- I don't need, despite wanting. the 496's.  No such boat is available in my area.  It is nice to spend $25k per year on gas, not many of us spend anywhere near that.

Liberty44140

It is amazing what a tune up will do. Cap, rotor, wires, plugs, fuel filters. Our dock mates have twin 5.0 Volvo's. Have had trouble planning for a couple of years. Been talking about a tune up for that long too Finally did it this spring. WORLD of difference for them, easy planning with a large group, dont even need full throttle. What is even more crazy is that their port engine has 0 compression on the #1 cylinder which was uncovered during the tune up so they will get a new valve this winter, but even with that compression issue the tune up gave them a new boat that planes fast and easy. Unfortunately I think that running around for two summers full throttle trying to get on plane is what tuliped the valve.