Drive Shower

Dream_Inn · May 2016

I'm still not sold. I've had both a B-3 and now the B-2, never seen chalky substance and never had to add any fluid throughout the summer. Yes, it is cheap insurance, and yes I have thought about it and still thinking about it (because you all know I have two new drives - both had nice green lube in them).

raybo3 · May 2016

Dream I am with you. If they are required then they would be there when you buy a new boat....... Just say'n........

LaRea · May 2016

OK, I'll play devil's advocate.

First, let me suggest that white residue doesn't prove the drive was overheating. It only proves that the drive was hot. Maybe normal, maybe overheating.

Next, let's all agree that a drive shower will definitely make the drive run cooler.

Intuitively, running cooler should do something good, right? Unfortunately, intuition is a poor substitute for evidence. What practical good comes from running cooler? Will my drive last longer? Burn less fuel? Improve cell phone reception? Why should I care about running cooler?

More importantly, where's the proof? Has somebody with twin drives installed a drive shower on one side only, and then torn down the drives for inspection after a few years? Does anybody have fleet statistics? If so, they aren't sharing.

(Note -- with MT's legendary boatkeeping skills, his drives will last forever, with or without showers. When the world ends, the only survivors will be cockroaches, Chuck Norris and MT's boats.)

Michael T · May 2016

I can't disagree with @LaRea's comment that I certainly don't have empirical data to support my use of drive showers.

The guys where I got my offshore racing licence waaaay back, had them on every high performance outdrive - even on their own "normal"personal rides and swore by them. Heat does nasty things to mechanical parts.

On the Bravo 1 that was attached to the 390Hp 383 I owned there was chalky residue on it after the first high speed run I made after break-in. I ran the boat right onto a boat lift. The drive tower was too hot to touch. I nearly had a sh*t!

I hoped I hadn't done any damage and was really pi**ed at myself for being so stupid as I knew better. luckily, upon examination - I drained my gear lube for signs of overheating and re-filled with new gear lube - it looked like I hadn't hurt my drive. Turns out that I didn't after we examined it with a scope in the fall at Winter lay-up.

I dropped the boat right into the water. I went into the house and looked at drive showers and ordered one. It is the one you see in the picture of my boat in the archived forum thread called????? All The Boys Are Back In Town????

BTW years ago my next door neighbour put an oven thermometer taped to the top of his drive (you know the kind with a steel probe at the end of a wire) he had twin 454s with Bravo ones. He too had a boat lift and ran it right onto it after a 60 minute run. I do not remember the reading but he was so shocked he put drive showers on both drives and re-did his experiment. The temperature drop was substantial.

I'd like to see someone do that today with the new digital temperature readers or an infrared scanner! THAT would be interesting!

Empirical evidence, maybe not but good enough for both of us, with the rigs we and the way we used them, had to run showers.

Question: Did either of us ever suffer a drive breakdown? NO. Did eany of the 3 drives show the chalky or discolored signs of overheating? No. Did any of our 3 Bravo 1 drives show signs of gear lube overheat at winter lay up? No.

For me, if you even suspect that your drive towers are getting hot for a few bucks and a few hours work why wouldn't you get a drive shower?

raybo3 · May 2016

Nice write up MT but checking the temp on the outside of the case does not mean that it is cooling down the oil or "saving" the drive. Again like I said if they were really needed they would be there when buy the boat new.

Dream_Inn · May 2016

Also, you said running them on the lifts. Was it just running them at idle? also, if you are running them on the lift and the boat is not moving, then water won't be flowing into the drives and over the drives as well (I know, it doesn't flow over the top of the drives). I do find it interesting and would like to see some facts. Again, the showers may be cooling them and could be helping (although certain things do need to run at certain temps - MT, you definitely should know that with performance engines). This is one of those things I've thought about for years and wondered. We have100s of lifts in my marina and I don't see any drive showers on any of them, nor do I see any chalky substance (although most people don't drive their boats for very long or even use them close to what a lot of us do).

frodo13056 · May 2016

Here's my practical application experience: I bought my boat new in the spring of 2008. That summer, I mainly did short cruises on Lake Michigan around the Chicago area (since my harbor was in the city). At the end of the first season when I drained the lower units, the lube oil was nice and green with no odd smell, etc. 2nd season, I took a few trips across the lake (~ 90 miles each way) and several trips down to the sandy beaches of Indiana (about 20 miles each way). At the end of the season, I drained the lower units and the gear lube was not the bright green I had seen at the end of the previous season and the gear lube had a "used" smell - anyone that has changed gear lube on a vehicle differential knows that smell :-). That winter, we organized a group buy (on the old Rinker Boat Owners website) of drive showers from Simrek and I put mine on for the 3rd season of owning my 320. That summer, again we took multiple trips across Lake Michigan (each way was about 3 hours of running time since my 320 runs most efficient at around 32 mph at about 1.3 gph) and to Indiana and when I drained the lower units at the end of the season, the gear lube looked like it was brand new and no odd odor. Every season since then, I have not seen any issues with the gear lube. My experience on this tells me that running extended times across Lake Michigan without the drive showers without a doubt heated the gear lube up - and most folks understand that when you heat gear lube (or oil) up, it begins to break down and that's when bad things can happen. Personally, I would not own a boat without a drive shower.

craigswardmtb · May 2016

I think being conscious of the issue at hand is enough defense against it. For me it's not worth the additional maintenance that would be needed.

Michael T · May 2016

No DI we put them on the lifts after they were run down the river. We vused our lifts somewhat like a mechanic uses a lift in a garage. If you saw the picture of Steve's (handy's) lifdt with its "crosswalk", well most of us had those. We worked on our boats on the lifts like it was a dry dock LOL.

So to check overheating of the drives we ran them right onto the lifts and raised them immediately.

@Raybo imo the exterior of a casing getting hot tells me the internals were/are hot. The tower houses many of the gears including the transition gears. It is not externally cooled while on plane with most boats. Every tech/gearhead I have ever discussed drive tower temperatures with has said that is an indication that the internals are hot - unless someone put a torch to it LOL. Every one and I mean every one subscribed to drive showers. If someone goes slow, doesn't have a heavy boat and doesn't do, say 35 mph for extended time with a cruiser they're probably fine.....but that's not me or my friends.

@frodo13056 I agree100% that was exactly our experience. I have helped install about 25 drive showers in my time and when I lived right on the water we all had drive showers.

IMO, my bottom line is it's just cheap insurance....I guess this topic is like our synthetic oil topic discussions - some believe some don't.

Great discussion though! ;-)

212rowboat · May 2016

the next aspect is "how hot is too hot?"

oils work best in a certain range... (insert fancy metallurgical name here) is a process where metals are finished, and it will survive almost the life of the metal so long as the environment is within the expected parameters... too cold is as bad as too hot. it may be worse in some situations...

some oils work better in warmer environments that colder... oils like gear oil don't totally submerge the gear, but instead rely on splashing to replenish the oils in direct contact with the moving part, and the surface tension of the oil to 'hang' and not 'shear' off while in use... if it's too hot it loses the expected property- but also if it's too cold..

I've got a brand spanking new drive... it's not even broken in yet... I NEED the heat cycles.. I won't put my shower on until it's around fifty hours or so- and that is if the thing even works like it's supposed to work..

LaRea · May 2016

Because I know you guys won't take personal offense, I'll continue ... we all learn from discussions like this.

Yes, heat can do nasty things -- IF it's outside the range for which the system was designed. But does anybody have evidence that heat is hurting the drive? The product is being used as Merc intended, in the environment for which it was designed.

There's evidence that drive showers keep the gear lube smelling new, but so what? I change my gear lube every year. Who cares if it smells different? The objective isn't to run cooler. Cooling should be a means to an end. Why should we care about running cooler?

If you said it would make my drive last an extra year, or I'd save 10% on fuel in the drive's final years, you'd have my attention -- but nobody's saying that. We are only talking about cosmetic issues like white residue and gear lube odor.

Maybe I've got a "sour grapes" attitude. There's no way I could use drive showers. My boat sits in low-tide mud at least once a week. Drive showers would clog up in no time, just like my pitot tubes. But I am curious to see some real evidence.

Black_Diamond · May 2016

Gear oil in the drives (90w) is rated for use at 100C (212F). Industrial Gearboxes usually prefer to run at <180F, anything more than 110F is too hot to touch.

If you look at the driveshowers.com showers for a B-3, it has (2) 0.5" dia inlets, yet (19) 0.25" dia outlets. Giving you 0.785 in-sq in to 0.932 in-sq out = problem. Ideally the inlet = outlet to prevent a pressure drop. Changing the tube size or hole dia can equalize the pressure. Be a bugger to make cheap and probably crap up fast.

So here is a pic of a brand new drive shower. 60psi, 3/4" hose supply. Probably more that it ever could see on a boat. Note some holes have no flow at all. It would take substantial flow/pressure to get the water to flow out of those side holes.

It would be fun to design this to work. Refresh my fluid dynamics time! I would bet this could be done with something transom mounted to flow more water up and on the drives. hmm

If I remember, I can rerun this at the end of the season. Bet they barely work, if at all.

raybo3 · May 2016

IMO those showers would be a maintenance nightmare. There is now way those "holes" would last a whole summer with clogging and marine growth. Again IMO not worth doing...........

Black_Diamond · May 2016

They do clog. Trust me.

Michael T · May 2016

The end of the tube entrance on the ones I used was angled with a tapered cut - the pressure exerted at cruising speed (35 mph) on that entrance hole blew out zebra mussels etc. Stick your hand in the water at 35 mph! As for cleaning them use the archives to see how easy it was. nothing is perfect, we replace anodes, we clean and touch-up drives, we wax hulls... cleaning drive showers was, for my friends and I, child's play compared to most of the other work. How much does your drive cost? how much does a drive shower cost? how do you use your boat? I repeat I guess we're back to the synthetic oil discussions. do you really have to have synthetic oil or is it just smart to do?

jme097 · May 2016

So these are good for boat that make long runs or boats that have powered up motors? Just curious if I should invest the $175 to protect a $5k piece of equipment

raybo3 · May 2016

MT are you saying because the water is being forced into the shower at 30-35 MPH that the showers wont foul up? I find that very hard to believe with the way that stuff grows around here. Those showers will be useless in a month because of growth.....

Handymans342 · May 2016

Ray, that means you have to use your boat more often.

LaRea · May 2016

With engine oil, there's real data showing that it actually makes the engine last longer. With drive showers, there's no data.

It appears that outdrives normally run around 195 deg F. That seems plenty hot enough that water would evaporate on the outside of the case, leaving a white residue.

Actually, for the same cost as drive showers, I'd rather add outdrive temperature sensors so I could actually see what's going on. For example, gear-smart.com --- anybody ever used something like that?

(EDIT: the web site is gear-smart.com )

raybo3 · May 2016

I am a weekend warrior........ I work all week long

Handymans342 · May 2016

I would not use them if my boat stayed in the water. I'm fortunate enough to have a lift.

raybo3 · May 2016

Handymans342 said:

I would not use them if my boat stayed in the water. I'm fortunate enough to have a lift.

Yeah no lift for me. If I had a lift I would not even bottom paint.

Black_Diamond · May 2016

The temp gages are a nice adder, Not sure that protective bracket comes with them but looks like a needed part. Needs to join up to the ioT (internet of things!)

Dream_Inn · May 2016

Definitely a good topic going here on this. I've thought about it for a long time and nice to see the discussion. For me, the only reason I had even considered it is because it would not be additional maintenance as I'm on a lift as well. If I weren't, I wouldn't even think about it. I've passed the 50 hour mark on one of my new drives and the other won't happen until later this year. I was told that the failure on both drives were not gear lube related or even heating related. Not that anyone would ever know for sure.

LaRea · May 2016

It would be interesting to see statistics of how outdrives fail on express cruisers. I'd bet that most outdrive deaths are caused by SSO (struck submerged object) followed by low oil, corrosion and water contamination.

Any of you boat mechanics want to weigh in?

Black_Diamond · May 2016

Someone with good gear and lubrication experience can pick out a lube failure vs bad parts or assembly techniques. Takes some work, but very doable. Parts in production like outdrives rarely have bad components. Bearings rarely fail from being a 'bad bearing'. Maintenance or lack of is probably #1. Contaminated oil. Incorrect assembly (shimming for bearing float) can happen. Logs/rocks/bottom hits speak for themselves.

Dream_Inn · May 2016

Well, a merc rep told me that, well, what I'd call "abuse" is high up there. Basically it's a bit of slamming in and out of gear, possibly at a higer rpm. Some people don't even know it's happening. It's what he warned me about with mine because I have DTS and it's very easy to shift from FWD straight into REV.

Madcow · June 2016

This is the kind I use and it is awesome, never have white junk on the drive and have used them for about 4 years. Keeps the drive cool and clean:

http://www.driveshowers.com/