Hatch override

Corral42

Has anyone experienced a hatch override that will open but when you reverse polarity nothing happens? Switch at helm works but trying to understand what’s going on with the override.

LaRea

Yes -- that's how it is designed to work.  I had a long thread recently -- will look it up when I get a chance.

LaRea

Here's the other thread:

https://rinkerboats.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/8162/how-to-open-the-engine-hatch-with-the-batteries-disconnected/p2

And here's the schematic for your 370:

Willhound

It's odd how on some models it was one way like the 370 but others like my 270 were both way. Anyone know a reason?

Handymans342

Willhound said:

It's odd how on some models it was one way like the 370 but others like my 270 were both way. Anyone know a reason?

Because they added the diode??

Grahamu

I think it has to do with the wiring. When it only works one way the helm switch only supplies a trigger voltage to the solenoids. Whereas when it works both ways the helm switch provides power to the ram motor requiring heavier gauge wires. I'm not sure about this as I have not seen a schematic for both ways.

Grahamu

Just found it on @LaRea thread and it has a 20 amp fuse and 12 gauge wiring to the motor whereas the one way circuit has a 3 amp helm fuse.

Spyderweb

But WHY would Rinker change it so it only goes 1 way?

LaRea

Rinker should have designed a new bypass circuit that could handle the heavier load of a 370 hatch, but they didn't.  

YYZRC

Without the diodes, if you hooked a power pack to the hatch override in reverse and the batteries were still connected, wouldn’t it cause a short circuit?

LaRea

The diode on stud #1 prevents current from entering in that direction.  Current can only enter through stud #2.  

kordo

I had the same problem.  I solved it by connecting a portable start battery to the 12v outlet on my electrical panel.  I used two 12v male plugs with a 10 amp fuse connected with about 2 feet of wire.  I plug one of the 12v male connectors into the portable start battery and the other end into the 12v outlet on the electrical panel and then use the helm hatch switch to open and close the hatch.  Works fine so far and I also have use of cabin lights if needed.  This will work if your batteries are dead or if you have disconnected them for the winter.  Good luck.

MarkB

Spyderweb said:

But WHY would Rinker change it so it only goes 1 way?

I'm going to assume a safety issue. Perhaps they are concerned of someone getting stuck in the engine bay, if for whatever reason that Hatch could be closed.  Too big of a Hatch may be too heavy for someone to open with their own force??? Who knows ... normally there's a good reason.

kordo

Mark, I don't follow your logic.  Someone getting stuck in the engine bay could happen whether or not they are using the normal hatch switch or the override, so the diode cannot be for that reason.  And the hatch is definitely "too heavy to for someone to open with their own force".  The short circuit explanation sounds like the best explanation.

LaRea

@Alswagg was there any such reasoning behind the design of an override circuit that will raise the hatch but not open it?

MarkB

kordo said:

Mark, I don't follow your logic.  Someone getting stuck in the engine bay could happen whether or not they are using the normal hatch switch or the override, so the diode cannot be for that reason.  And the hatch is definitely "too heavy to for someone to open with their own force".  The short circuit explanation sounds like the best explanation.

If you are using the override, it means that there is no batter power to the hydraulic opener or a fault. So opening with the override would be considered a special circumstance.  My thought is if for whatever reason during this situation the Hatch was allowed to close, you could get someone stuck in there.  When we do safety reviews, we do not necessarily spend time to figure out HOW that could happen, we start with IF that did happen, what are the consequences ... and if the consequences are high, then we design that scenario out (ex. prevent Hatch from closing with override).  The problem with trying to figure out HOW and using that as a condition before you decide to do something about a risk is we cannot fathom how many possible scenarios would lead to HOW ... all accidents are a result of someone thinking something wouldn't happen ... and people are quiet ingenious (dumb) when it comes to crazy scenarios ... so we skip the HOW, and simply ask ... HOW BAD IF IT HAPPENS.

If the normal Hatch switch could be operated, then the assumption is there would need to be two people there for someone to be closed in the Hatch ... one inside the Hatch, and one at the Helm where the switch is ... so that second person could always open the Hatch via the switch.  If someone overrides, it's possible they are on the boat by themselves.

Also on the 260EC, the Hatch was heavy, but if you did a squat, you could probably open it ... although it would be pretty tight in there with the Hatch closed .... not sure if the Hatch could be closed with the override ... never checked that.

aero3113

Can you use the hatch override posts for 12V power? I don’t have a 12V plug at the stern, I was thinking if I put alligator clips on the cord of a 12V pump it might work. I don’t know if I want to add a 12V plug back there.

Cableguy Greg

aero3113 said:

Can you use the hatch override posts for 12V power? I don’t have a 12V plug at the stern, I was thinking if I put alligator clips on the cord of a 12V pump it might work. I don’t know if I want to add a 12V plug back there.

No. There should be an Acc breaker with nothing on it that you can use for a 12v plug. I did this on my 280. 

aero3113

I decided to buy this pump. I can charge it in the cabin when it needs it. AC or DC

Rechargeable Inflating Paddle Board Electric Air Pump 16PSI with Built-in 6000mAh Li-on Battery,ISUP Pump for Inflatable SUP,Kayak,Tent with Inflation and Deflation Function https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0881FFSYW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_PRWNFPTGPYC3YXQ8S62N?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Viggy

So if I disconnect my batteries for the winter, I can’t put the hatch down? Only up.

Grahamu

Is the hatch ram motor connected to the house bank?

LaRea

On boats with the 1-way bypass circuit, the hatch lift runs from the starboard starter -- not the house battery. 

@Viggy to operate the hatch lift with batteries disconnected, plug the boat into shore power.  Turn on the battery charger and turn all battery switches on.  Hatch should operate normally.  

Spyderweb

@LaRea, that’s great if that’s the workaround.  I’ve been worried about this for awhile.  Just curious why this works.  In my mind, the charger energizes the batteries, which then energize all the 12 volt stuff.  Even if the charger sends juice to the batteries, if they are disconnected from everything else, how does power ultimately get to the hatch lift motor?

LaRea

The charger and the battery are both connected to the input side of the switch.  So even with no battery, voltage from the charger has a path to the motor.  You just have to turn on the switch.

Same with the house circuit (which operates the solenoids).

Spyderweb

That’s great.  Thanks.

kordo

Finally got around to taking a couple pics of the system I use for opening and closing the engine room hatch after I have disconnected the batteries.  I don't have to mess around with battery clamps and the cockpit door, and I get the added bonus of being able to use interior lights etc.  There is a 10 amp fuse in one of the jacks.