Mid cabin leak

mvgvb

Hey all,

We apparently have a leak in the mid cabin berth in our 2008 280 EC. Seems like an odd spot for it, no other areas look wet. It’s definitely coming up from the bottom and and not leaking down.

We did have the bilge pump running accidentally for a while, but not sure that’s relevant.

Anyone seen this before?

Thanks!

davidbrooks

Why are you so sure it is coming from the bottom up?

aero3113

Is your mid bilge full? Is the pump working?

mvgvb

Have some pictures I’ll upload later when I have better internet. 

But no, there’s a small amount of water in the main bilge and mid bilge… maybe an inch or so. Both pumps appear to work when I flip the bilge pump switch. 

Not sure how much water should be in the bilge, but I assume a small amount isn’t an issue or would be somehow getting the area above it wet.

Wife says the water smells a bit like vinegar, not sure what that indicates:

YYZRC

You should Shop Vac the bilges dry to better help you track down the volume and source(s) of water. 

mvgvb

Did that. But there wasn’t a ton of water in the bilge so I don’t think it was coming from there. It hits the carpet in the aft cabin first which soaks jt all up. 

Seems to be coming from somewhere in the corner shown below, either the starboard wall or after wall there. The corner I took the shot from was dry.

climbed in the engine compartment. Not only was that bilge at a normal level, but the wall against the cabin was bone dry. 

mvgvb

First two pictures are the mid bilge, second two the aft bilge. A little water, but nothing crazy.

YYZRC

AC drain pan overflow?

mvgvb

We were running the AC pretty hard this weekend. Where is the pan located?

I would have thought it would drain/overflow directly into the bilge, no? 

rmrstlmo

The AC unit sits in the pan.  There is a hose from the pan to drain it.  I've had it get clogged before and then water ends up where it isn't suppose to be.  Not sure about your boat but it could either go directly overboard or to the grey water sump.  I've also had the pan get rusted and start to leak.  Is your AC unit near where the water issue is?

YYZRC

I assume the AC unit is behind that return air vent in the berth in the pic above?

mvgvb

Cableguy Greg

The AC drains into the bilge via the heater hose that is just below the fuel filler line. Which end of the bed was wet? The end with the port light or the other end? 

mvgvb

The other end. Starboard / Aft corner of the bed area, although can’t see exactly where. Port side by the window is dry.

YYZRC

What’s the story with the shower sump? Lid is off and it looks like it has two inputs. Is the black hose from the AC drain pan?

aero3113

YYZRC said:

What’s the story with the shower sump? Lid is off and it looks like it has two inputs. Is the black hose from the AC drain pan?

Tabs on the cover are broken also. You will need a new cover to keep the mid bilge dry.

Cableguy Greg

aero3113 said:

YYZRC said:

What’s the story with the shower sump? Lid is off and it looks like it has two inputs. Is the black hose from the AC drain pan?

Tabs on the cover are broken also. You will need a new cover to keep the mid bilge dry.

It looks like the pump in the box isn’t working since it’s full of water. 

aero3113

@Cableguy Greg the water might be at the low point that the pump can’t get out.

mvgvb

Yea, shower sump does need a new cover. No story really, came that way at purchase a couple weeks ago. 

The black pipe above the sump in the picture doesn’t end there, just an awkward angle. It actually has electrical wiring running through it. 

Could the sump top be related though? It’s the area above it that’s all wet, so seams unlikely. I think the pump worked during the survey, but if it wasn’t, wouldn't the overflow just go into the bilge and not the aft berth?

I have a really hard time getting/seeing into that mid-bilge. Such a tiny opening with little room to maneuver. 

seahawk

MVG....just as an aside.....we recently bought a 2008 280 EC. We're in the process of tracking down a similar leak in the mid cabin except on the Port side. We have some places in our outside canvas cover that leak and thought the water might be getting inside coming from the outside....from the cockpit. B ut all the drains and scuppers  appear   to be keeping that water draining to where its supposed to drain.    We inspected the seals on the shore power inlet and coax plugins....then the point where the foredeck railing attaches to the hull side, then the cleat located right there, and the cabin port window. All appeared ti be dry.  We're in the process of re-bedding the windshield screws. The screws sit in a channel in the bottom of the windscreen, frame  and the gasket to cover this channel was missing on ours. So, any rain would  just accumulate in this channel. And if you look closely you can see that any water that gets in this channel will pool in the middle where the windscreen channel begins to tilt upward into the radar arch. I'm thinking / hoping that any screw holes that were not properly sealed would allow water to ingress at that point because it had no way to drain away going "uphill" so to speak. And the water might find its way along the inside of the hull behind the sidewall liner until it came to the carpeted floor of the mid cabin.  If that doesnt work then the rubric is next,.....       

seahawk

Should have said "rubrail"....(thanx spellcheck......Not ).  

davidbrooks

@mvgvb it is hard for me to imagine the water coming from below unless your mid bilge is full. If the carpet is wet, and it is wet closest to the hull then i would focus on water leaking in either from the top such as windshield screws or sides such as rub rail, portals, hand rails etc...  As a guy that took his cabin apart to replace the carpeting this winter i started to get it when i noticed how they put in the carpet.  Basically it is the first thing in and goes a few inches up the sides.  It is easy for water to run inside the head liner and down behind the vinyl to get to the carpet.  You definitely want to find it as the musty moldy smell of wet carpet will just get worse if you dont.

mvgvb

@YYZRC @rmrstlmo yes the AC is behind that vent, and yes that is also the general region of the water intrusion. 

@davidbrooks @seahawk thinking it’s not outside intrusion… seems like the problem hasn’t gotten any worse sitting in the slip with systems off and water not being used and it didn’t occur initially during any rain. 

The A/C seems to be my best bet at this point. The AC compartment was dry, is the pan below the wooden shelf it sits on? (Below). Anyone familiar with how to take apart the storage compartment to the right of it? Unscrewed the corners but it seems to be built from interlocking plywood.

YYZRC

On my Four Winns there were angle brackets inside the cabinet space. Reach in and feel around. 

The pan is integrated as part of the AC unit itself. If you feel around the unit your fingers will find their way into the pan. If there’s more than an inch of water, you have a blockage. I circled the drain pan. 

In my Four Winns, I found that the unit wasn’t angled enough and the pan always had a lot of water in it that would splash out when I got underway. I added Starboard shims under the pan to the end opposite the drain line to encourage the water to drain. 

Pat310

The rusty mess in the top photo is the pan. Mine had rust hole in it and was leaking into the mid bilge. The drain is on the side of the pan and never drains completely empties adding to the rust issues. I got a fiberglass bakery tray and added a flush mount drain connected to a thru hull drain. Added some shims to tilt it toward the drain and cut drain hole on side to fully empty the metal pan. 

rmrstlmo

That roundish panel that the vent is mounted in looks like it should come off.  Might be a simple as Velcro'd in place.  

Aqua_Aura

Yes as someone else said if you look inside that storage pocket there is angle brackets with screws and that should get you started if you need to take that panel off. 

The round cover over the AC has the buttons on each side and I think if you turn them they should unscrew. They are basically just screw covers. 

So I assume it has been getting wet and you have had the AC running and no rain? Seems like you may have somewhat solved the problem now the solution. 

Only thing I can think is the pan drain is clogged or maybe the water line to the compressor may have a loose connection or hole in the line.