Help with Radar Decision

Liberty44140

My boat came with a Raymarine 48” 4kw Magnum open array radar. It stopped working on our 10 day trip last month and the local tech said the amplifier in the pedestal is shot. Options:

-have current open array repaired, will cost around $1700 all in

-buy a brand new Raymarine quantum2 dome. With my friends discount I’ll be at around $2000 all in

i am trying to figure out the history of my current open array. Was lead to believe it was brand new in 2019 but it shows 11,000 running hours which is insane. My boat has 400 hours on it and there are only 9,000 hours in a full year. Thinking maybe he bought it used. Trying to get the broker to ask the PO for the history.

So for those who know radar @Dream_Inn any thoughts on open array vs the new quantum2 technology? More new and big boats are coming with domes. 

Edit: MFD is a 2019 Axiom 12 so I am sticking with Raymarine 

aero3113

@Liberty44140 , I don’t know much about radar but I would go with new. Would the repaired old unit come with a warranty? Would hate to see you have it repaired only for something else to go on it. 

Liberty44140

Good point @aero3113 my tech said no warranty on the repair but that is on my list of questions to ask Raymarine directly. I would send it to them myself. My assumption is that they warranty their work but not other parts so yea the admiral and I are worried about the same situation two years from now. My tech says the domes have far less moving parts to fail. No belt, etc like the array.

Open array will go farther (72 miles mounted high enough vs 24 miles on dome). The new dome technology is cool though. Boats moving away from you show in green, boats moving toward you or stopped bouys/boats show in red. 

LaRea

Switching from a 48" 4kw array to a 24" dome will be disappointing.  The resolution is worse, you won't see as far in rain, and your range for tracking rain storms will be worse.  

The Quantum is a nice package.  Mine doesn't have Doppler, so I'm wondering if it would only show up in a full-screen display -- not on a chart overlay. 

I'd take the 48" array any day.  Resolution comes from the size of the aperture.  

Liberty44140

Interesting @LaRea I hate to admit it but I have not used it much, couple times a month I’ll turn it on for a half hour but barely look at it. I probably won’t notice the difference. Whatever I do ill
be using it a lot more!  Your comment on the Doppler was going to be my next question. Have you compared the new quantum2 with Doppler and chirp to the open array? My tech is telling me that outside of range they are surprisingly similar. 

Looks like the repair warrant is just 180 days of warranty on the repair itself and that’s it. 

Definitely a hard choice!!

Black_Diamond

That Quantum should be fine depending on the display unit.  Don’t get over sold on the range with the open array….since it is line of sight for radar you are limited by how high it is mounted.  

Liberty44140

Thanks. Display is a 2 1/2 year old Axiom 12 so it should be new enough to max out capabilities of whatever at I go with. Noted on height, it’s 11-12 feet from the water which is pretty low I believe. 

LaRea

Black_Diamond said:

That Quantum should be fine depending on the display unit.  Don’t get over sold on the range with the open array….since it is line of sight for radar you are limited by how high it is mounted.  

You're right, but that doesn't mean that power is unimportant.  

You don't need to see 72 miles unless you're offshore, and you can't see 72 miles if the radar is only 12 feet above the water. 

But power determines how well you can see in heavy rain -- and that's when you need radar the most.  If you get caught in a rain storm, and you can't anchor, and you need to see the shore and other boats, power matters a lot.  Or if you want to see how big the storm is, and which direction it's moving, power matters a lot.  

And don't discount the importance of image resolution.  Resolution comes from the size of the aperture.  With cameras, the bigger the lens, the more detail the picture will capture.  A 48" radar will have much more detail than a 24" radar.  

Having operated 2-kw and 4-kw radars, I'm considering selling my Quantum for a 48" 4-kw array.  

I always tell people:  use the radar every time you get underway!  It takes practice.  When you see a boat on the radar, does your brain immediately know how far away it is and which direction it's heading?  Can you quickly adjust the gain or turn on the rain filter?  The answer will be no if you only use radar a few times a year.  When you find yourself in a bad situation, that's not the time to learn how to use the radar.  

Dream_Inn

Well, I'm just catching up on here after a great weekend!  So, definitely the larger array is much better (just look up the radar range equation).  Turn that radar on all the time and get used to it.  It will someday save your A$$.  Fog, rain, whatever you get caught in, if you are used to looking at your radar on a nice day and know what things look like, you can almost use that thing in the blind!  (believe me, for my job you definitely need to!)

Liberty44140

Many thanks for the info here. Exactly what I am looking for. It is funny when you google dome vs open array other boats owners forums talk about one thing; what looks better on the boat! I want to make the right decision for use, function, and longevity.

I was leaning toward the brand new quantum2 dome but now I am leaning toward repairing the open array. Trying to get more info on the age of the open array, it is the model E70484

Liberty44140

We are going stick with open array and have ours repaired. I’ve learned that it was manufactured in 2018 and installed spring 2019. 

Question: should I add a 4 degree wedge to tilt it forward?

In looking at my same boat online almost all came with open array and none have a wedge. But all of them are IPS, my v drive boat is very rare. Here is how she looks running and at rest:

LaRea

I'd say add the wedge.  The array is level at no-wake speed, and your running angle is around 8 degrees.  So a 4-degree wedge would be a good compromise.  

It's not going to make a huge difference.  The radar's vertical beam width is relatively wide ... probably 25 degrees on yours.  The wedge might slightly improve imaging of close objects when you're on plane.  And it's not going to hurt performance at no-wake speed.

Liberty44140

Great thanks, will add the wedge. 

Handymans342

@Liberty44140 I think @LaRea needs a wedgie for all that good advice. 

Liberty44140

Completely agree @Handymans342...... If @LaRea would like a wedgie for his glorious advice, by all means he should have one at your earliest convenience! 

RiverRat232

Liberty44140 said:

Completely agree @Handymans342...... If @LaRea would like a wedgie for his glorious advice, by all means he should have one at your earliest convenience! 

Should it be a standard wedgie or an atomic wedgie?

Liberty44140

Of course!

LaRea

A 4-degree wedgie hardly qualifies as atomic.  Standard all the way.

RiverRat232

Yeah, standard may be better. Atomic wedgies can be deadly.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/atomic-wedgie-kills-oklahoma-man-article-1.1570024

LaRea

If I'm ever charged with murder by atomic wedgie, I'll move to Cape Coral so I can plead guilty as A Florida Man.  

Annnnnnnnd, we've veered off-subject.  Weren't we talking about something?

Handymans342

LaRea said:

If I'm ever charged with murder by atomic wedgie, I'll move to Cape Coral so I can plead guilty as A Florida Man.  

Annnnnnnnd, we've veered off-subject.  Weren't we talking about something?

Just wedgies I believe. 

Liberty44140

Oh Handy….

Liberty44140

Left our marina last night headed for middle bass island hoping to beat a storm. 5 miles out we knew we probably couldn’t beat it and pulled in the Kelly’s island just for an hour to wait it out. Sure would have been nice to turn on the radar and actually see the storm! 

Cableguy Greg

Liberty44140 said:

Left our marina last night headed for middle bass island hoping to beat a storm. 5 miles out we knew we probably couldn’t beat it and pulled in the Kelly’s island just for an hour to wait it out. Sure would have been nice to turn on the radar and actually see the storm! 

I just wish I was back on the Erie Islands. Such a great place!!! 

Liberty44140

This all worked out. Raymarine agreed to repair my open array under warranty as it is only around 2 years old so I am only out shipping costs to them. The 4 degree wedge was a good call. Now looking at it with the wedge it is barely tilting forward so I think that it was almost tilted up a little bit before. Glad it is there. Oh, and the radar works well! Used it last weekend to go to Kelleys Island and Cedar Point! 

LaRea

Wow, how long did the repair take?  Seems like that was pretty quick. 

Cableguy Greg

Awesome! Doesn’t look very busy at Seaway. 

Liberty44140

It was quick LR, they re shipped within 4 business days of receipt so I was only without it one weekend. Impressive!

Seaway was pretty empty Greg but that was during the week, Monday/Tuesday. I should have said "used it this week" . Headed to PIB/Miller next weekend