The fun continues. Low compression in Cylinder #1

J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 2022 in Engine Discussions
From day 1 my mechanic friend said that the engine didn't sound 100% right. I also have ALWAYS smelled a heavy gas smell at the dock. It's been through three mechanics in 5 years, and only the last one noticed the plug last year seemed off on one of the cylinders. 

He replaced it and we kept an eye on it. Finally doing a compression test while it was cold. 

  • Compression test

    •  1) 90psi 2) 156psi 3) 157psi 4) 161psi 5) 154psi 6) 158psi 7) 151psi 8) 153psi

    • Compression average (147psi) * Note that testing was done with engine “Cold” and that cylinder #1 may come up when warm. 

    • I ran some carbon cleaner in cylinder #1 in hopes of improving the compression

  • Remove and replace spark plugs

    • Spark plugs in fair condition, besides cylinder #1 (STBD/Rear). Has small rust and deposits throughout electrode


Hoping it comes up when warm doesn't sound sensible to me. Going to run one when it's warm one of these days.. assuming it's going to be lower than the rest when warm.  Kicking myself for not doing this test when it was under warranty for the 2 years after it was bought!!

It tops out at 35mph ish.. Wonder if this is why it wont hit 40, wouldn't do it with the 20p 4 blades and wont do it with the 22's either..

Where would you start assuming it's lower than the other cylinders when warm?




Post edited by J3ff on

Comments

  • randy56randy56 Member Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You have more fun with boats that anyone I know. How many hours are on that new engine? I was running 38 mph so your not that far off. What's rpm's? 
    Boat Name : 

  • YYZRCYYZRC Member Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you add a bit of oil to cylinder 1 to determine if it’s rings vs valves?
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • earl1z19earl1z19 Member Posts: 343 ✭✭✭
    Try a leak down test. It will help you discern between valves and cylinder issues. With any sort of luck it will be cylinder related and you wont need to pull the motor to correct the problem
  • skennellyskennelly Member Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭
    @earl1z19 - you mean valve related?  Cylinder related the engine would have to be pulled.  Valve related you can have the heads redone without pulling the motor.
    2002 - 270FV Mag 350 B3
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2022
    when manifolds go it almost always starts in cylinder 2 and 4 in my experience.  the odd side of the block seems to always last the longest for reasons i can't explain.  

    the rust on the plug is a dead givaway- you need to adjust your valves- it isn't seating.  hopefully it's just an adjustment issue... it could be a spring issue... it could be a seat issue... it's likely a lifter rod issue.  holding 90 on a dry cylinder, though, it seems it would be an adjustment.  the exhaust valve is the culprit.  

    by the way- #1 is port front.  

    check the seat of the rocker to the pedestal... pull and roll your lifter rods across a flat... there should be zero wobble... the concern here, under scrutiny because of the rust, is the cylinder ingested some water and enough to bend the lifter rod ever so slightly, and because of the valve doesn't seat fully.... which is an easy fix. 

    warm up your engine and then pop off the valve covers... leave one bank covered and tune the exposed valve springs... i can never recall (it's one of those things i try not to commit to memory as that will get me in trouble every time) but i think it's turn to no rattle, and then a quarter turn more... but don't hold me to that for all that's holy- reference it.... torque specs are just a thing- it gets you close- every engine and cylinder will be slightly different- valve springs just ain't that precise... there will be as much as a pound of torque delta across a bank every time. it's a messy but it's a simple job.  

    i bet you discover a slightly out of true lifter rod... IF you do, get a scope on that cam lobe and look for scoring just to be careful.  again, though, the lifter rod is the most likely issue. 


  • earl1z19earl1z19 Member Posts: 343 ✭✭✭
    skennelly said:
    @earl1z19 - you mean valve related?  Cylinder related the engine would have to be pulled.  Valve related you can have the heads redone without pulling the motor.skennelly said:
    @earl1z19 - you mean valve related?  Cylinder related the engine would have to be pulled.  Valve related you can have the heads redone without pulling the motor.
    Correct, Valve related and not cylinder.
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tuliped valve will do that too. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • captkevincaptkevin Member Posts: 269 ✭✭
    Wow you sure have your share of repairs
    2004 232
    2021 Yamaha Fx svho
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭✭✭
    captkevin said:
    Wow you sure have your share of repairs
    Yup. Really enjoy the water though! If housing was anywhere near affordable here I guess I'd have to just give up on the boat and go smaller, but for now that's not in the plan! 

    Thank you all for your advice, have read it all and am talking to the mechanic about it, including all of your advice. As far as when it happened who knows, but it isn't a recent development it seems. 
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2022
    Tuliped valve will do that too. 
    Is it possible it was like this from day one? I would think the marina that put the rebuilt 383 in it wouldn't have wasted the time to do any testing (as they were garbage)... If it's been like this for  5 years, any other kind of perm damage to look for.. ?

    This is from the water test when the engine was being "broken in" - straight from the invoice 8/29/2016
    ========================
    08/29: BEGIN ENGINE DISASSEMBLE AND PREP FOR ENGINE REMOVAL. 08/30: 0.00

    finish engine disconnect and raise engine out of engine compartment with lift
    operator. ***This tech labor billed on separate insurance invoice deducted
    from total labor supplied here.***noted transom assembly nuts and washer
    could use replacement. spray with corrossion blaster and let sit overnight.
    order parts. 08/31: START REPLACING TRANSOM NUTS AND WASHERS.
    REMOVED Y-PIPE. WENT TO FINISH NUT & WASHER INSTALLS WHEN BOTTOM
    OF TRANSOM BRACKET BROKE AWAY. ORDER NEW T/A. PERFORM REMOVAL
    OF INNER & OUTER TRANSOM PANELS. ADVISED FIBERGLASS TECH TO REPAIRT
    A FEW OPEN GELCOAT AREAS FROM ORIGINAL T/A REMOVAL. 09/01: CLEAN
    -UP, PREP & PAINT EXHAUST Y-PIPE. BEGIN TRANSOM ASSEMBLY
    REPLACEMENT/INSTALL. HAD TO STOP DUE TO RAIN. UNCRATE NEW ENGINE
    AND BEGIN RISER KIT INSTALLATIONS. ORDER ADDITIONAL PARTS NEEDED FOR
    FRESHWATER COOLED/RISER KIT CONVERSION: NEED 10-1/2" SCREWS VS.
    RISER KIT SUPPLIED STANDARD 9" SCREWS. 09/01: FINISH INSTALLING RISERS
    ON NEW ENGINE AND CONNECT VARIOUS COMPONENTS TO NEW TRANSOM
    ASSEMBLY. LOWER AND BEGIN INSTALLATION AND CONNECTIONS OF NEW
    ENGINE. 09/06: continue with engine install. bilge pump float switch erratic
    operation/should replace before engine fully installed. replace failing float
    switch. reinstall outdrive/perform engine alignment. 09/07-09/08: continue
    engine's installation and hook-ups. perform trim adjustments to trim sender
    pucks/calibrate drive's positions. retrofit cooling system's expansion tank to
    fit Rinker configuration. Call Rinker regarding extranneous wires in engine
    wire harness to confirm essential and non-essential. Top-off fluid levels: oil,
    trim, power steering and antifreeze. Surplus left on boat for owner add as
    needed during break-in. Sea trial boat: At wide open throttle tachometer
    appears to be reading a little high at 5,600 rpms+ which is wrong and rev
    limiter did not come on. Idle rpms at about 650 vs. 800 registering on your
    gauge. AT WOT it is within specs both RPM (5,100-5,200) and MPH-wise based
    on course over ground speed check of 34+ MPH.
    ===============================


    First of all, the tach has always been 300-400 rpm off of reality (verified by Vessel view mobile)

    This test was done with stock 3 blade 22p props on it. Does 5100 rpm sound right for 34 mph?

    Seems to me that 5100 - 5200 rpms at 34 mph is completely not accurate seeing how it just did this with 4 blade 22p's on it..


  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ps. they billed 39.5 hours for engine swap, and T/A swap.



    Down here in the keys another shop did the same thing in less than 18. Wish I had known I was dealing with con artists up in the N.E. 
  • randy56randy56 Member Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2022
    You should be 5000 to 5400 rpm, was it over proped? it says 4230 rpm
    Boat Name : 

  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2022
    randy56 said:
    You should be 5000 to 5400 rpm, was it over proped? it says 4230 rpm
    Hard to tell with one cylinder not doing it's job. My point is that when brand "new" the shop that installed it said it was a 34 mph boat at 5200 rpm, yet here is a screen shot of it doing 34 mph at 4200 rpm..  I'm wondering if this problem existed from day 1 - as the gas smell at the dock has always been there and a friend mechanic told me it's not running right from day 1 (he's a little crazy, so I ignored him thinking there's no way a shop would deceive me) 
  • Cableguy GregCableguy Greg Member Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A friend on mine has a 2006 270 with the Volvo 5.7 and their duo prop. The flavor of engine that he has is 320 HP. He can hit 40 on his boat. I know, apples and oranges, but I would say your engine had issues from day one. The fact that they charged almost 40 hours for an engine swap is crazy. My mechanic and I swapped a long block on my 232 years ago in less time than that. Something smells fishy there. 
    2008 280 Express Cruiser, 6.2MPI, B3, Pittsburgh, PA "Blue Ayes"
    Go Steelers!!!
  • YYZRCYYZRC Member Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    J3ff said:
    Call Rinker regarding extranneous wires in engine wire harness to confirm essential and non-essential.
    This is my fav part!
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,662 mod
    YYZRC said:
    J3ff said:
    Call Rinker regarding extranneous wires in engine wire harness to confirm essential and non-essential.
    This is my fav part!

    I agree & that wire harness is not a Rinker part, which they should know.  Also, they should know what wires are for what if they deal with this stuff every day.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • Cableguy GregCableguy Greg Member Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dream_Inn said:
    YYZRC said:
    J3ff said:
    Call Rinker regarding extranneous wires in engine wire harness to confirm essential and non-essential.
    This is my fav part!

    I agree & that wire harness is not a Rinker part, which they should know.  Also, they should know what wires are for what if they deal with this stuff every day.
    Exactly!!!
    2008 280 Express Cruiser, 6.2MPI, B3, Pittsburgh, PA "Blue Ayes"
    Go Steelers!!!
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dream_Inn said:
    YYZRC said:
    J3ff said:
    Call Rinker regarding extranneous wires in engine wire harness to confirm essential and non-essential.
    This is my fav part!

    I agree & that wire harness is not a Rinker part, which they should know.  Also, they should know what wires are for what if they deal with this stuff every day.
    Exactly!!!
    This place was in the North East too! Lots of I/O's - no excuse. The only thing that kept me sane is that insurance DID come through for something like 70% of the bill. 
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