Options

anybody seen this boat?

You have to love the water....

Len & Robyn   342 FV  Freebird

Comments

  • Options
    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting.  One new engine make you think, then add in salt water.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • Options
    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,589 mod
    Well, mine are gas but it would sure take a lot of cruising to make up the $90k difference for diesel option.  I will say that no hard top on that boat makes it a tough sell.  The hard top really makes the boat and is well worth more than the $10k that is for the option.  It is a decent price, but you need to make sure that isn't the only thing you look at.  The engine room in the 410/420 is great, but other maintenance areas within the cabin are a real PITA to work on.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • Options
    mambugmambug Member Posts: 24
    So much hate for gas, yet all the gas vehicles I've owned (and flown) seem to work pretty good....
  • Options
    raybo3raybo3 Administrator Posts: 5,468 admin

    Would you really buy a boat from a guy named Repo??  LOL

    2002 342 Fiesta Vee PC Point Of Pines YC Revere MA. popyc.org     raybo3@live.com
  • Options
    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Get your checkbook out, you can get diesel planes and retrofit kits for Cessna's right now.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • Options
    pepmysterpepmyster Member Posts: 308 ✭✭✭
    That is a huge boat, must be stable on the water.........

    All I've wanted was to just have fun.

  • Options
    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2013
    Al, there is a Brit. submariner who was the subs chief diesel engineer on the subs in the R.N. He has his boat in the slip next to me at our marina. Of course he has deisels - but told me exactly what you said when I asked if I should consider deisels for my 360. He is retired, but when anyone within a 200 mile radius of the marina has a really tricky deisel problem they call him. As well, he added that ethanol problems for gas engines were nothing compared to the fuel problems that deisel owners are now having with low phosphate deisel fuel and injector and piston havoc. VERY interesting! MT
  • Options
    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The day biodiesel and/or diesel#1 is gone from the market, is the day I'll strongly consider dumping mine.. ulsd (#2, and only one approved for hwy) only lasts a month or two before it bacteria and algeas up- turns out that sulphur has handy at keeping that at a minimum.. the lubricity of the oil is also dramatically affected, which allows injectors to burn up... The fuel they squirt actually lubricated them (or did, before ulsd)..

    Rinkeryan: I highly, strongly, rec you use an additive in every tank.. do the research for yourself, or let me save you the trouble: motorcraft cetane+lubricity boost (red cap).. several independent labs all determine it to be the best... If you can't get that, at least use diesel kleen +cetane (gray bottle)...
  • Options
    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh... If I could effectively, safely, and reasonably upgrade a decent CDT or cat with sequential turbos (small front loader with big daddy turbine behind and inline, both with variable pitch blades) I'd go up against those 496/502's... I bet I could give it a run for its money in a sprint, but I'm all but certain I could hold a decent speed longer and further than the gassers..

    That's the real benefit of oil squeezer's: they can hold a steady (and nearing wot) for a lot longer periods with relative reliability more than a gasser..
  • Options
    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RinkerYan said:
    Oh, and what happens when ethanol goes to 15% ????
    here is a pdf.. pretty good read..

    what year are your yans?

    there are two (main) schools of thought on injecting-

    Hydraulically actuated, Electronically controlled, Unit injector, (HEUI) which take low pressure provided fuel, use a tiny piston to dramatically increase the pressure, and squirt them- they have moving parts and are prone to failure... those moving parts dang near require the lubricity of #1 diesel, or biodiesel to last any amount of time.. w/o that, metal slams on metal instead of a bed of fuel/oil, which is a lubricant by itself.. this is what you most likely have..

    the next one is pizzo injectors, which use a silly high pressure fuel supply behind (before) them on the rail, and make use of a tiny crystal in the injector itself, which shrinks when electricity is removed from it, allowing the high pressure fuel past.. these are better for using #2 ultra low sulfur fuels with, but... in order for them to work properly, they have to have a high pressure supply provided by a cranks actuated high pressure pump, and those are problematic all by themselves.. at idle, mine provides 3500psi, and at wot it is providing 27,500~29,000psi... ridiculously high pressure, no? the silly high pressure of the pump doesn't like ANY debris whatsoever, or even gelled fuel for that matter- even the 500ppm of #1 diesel sulfur content can clog them..

    there was a day when diesels were the most reliable engines to be had- and you could certainly get some power out of them.. w/ pizzo and common rail highly pressurized fuel, economy shot through the roof.. but they have come under the watch of the gestapo EPA, and have been severely hampered in both economy and performance... to say it plainly -diesels are in the period of development that gassers were in the mid seventies to the early eighties, and it may be better to wait it out until they iron out the details, just as it was better to do so then with the performance v8's with their smog pumps and cumbersome low-flow catalytic converters.


    the pdf I supplied doesn't list the motorcraft red capped stuff, but it is the better of the selections out there.. this is actually one place where Amsoil should likely go back to the drawing board- their offering is only slightly better than the baseline of using no additive at all.... but don't feel bad, some of the expensive additives actually are worse for use than that baseline.. go figure, huh?
  • Options
    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ethanol is of the devil... true story.. it wreaks havoc on engines not designed for it.. however, for new engines that take into account the stuff will be there, it isn't too bad.. given, performance won't be as good as recreational gasoline, because the burn of ethanol laden gas is quicker, as in more akin to an explosion, than the (pretty fast but not exactly an explosion) burn of a high octane and quality gasoline.. the soft parts and pieces and the material used in hard parts such as fuel lines and tanks are more engineered to handle the corrosive action of ethanol...

    using ethanol in an engine not designed for it means you'll be replacing stuff on that engine a lot more often...

    in the meantime, use star-tron by starbright ethanol treatment.. it's the only stuff I know of that works..
  • Options
    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Alswagg said:
    Deisels Vs Gas,  The debate will go on and on.  Both are good.  I have a deisel tractor for moving boats around the shop, I love it and will never go back to gas for that application.  However, i still have a gas shop truck, not interested in going to deisel.  We start and stop at least 20 to 25 times per day.  I want instant throttle responce and clean burning, no smoke, no soot, no smell.  Anyhow gettng back to the 410, if the new buyer was to remove the large muffler system and reroute the exhaust to the way I had intended, through the bottom of hull, the owner would pick up about 2 mph and .3 mpg at cruise...   The bottom exit exhaust was too difficult for production to understand, so we settled on a muffler system.  Crazy huh.  Al
    stop and go with a diesel is really really bad.. killing the engine before the turbos (if equipped) have cooled below 300* is very very bad for them.. especially oil cooled turbos, which circulate oil to them from the crankcase, and only have a seal in between them and induction- if that seal blows underway, you're in for the ride of your life as the engine 'runs away'.. tractors and other heavy equipment that isn't boosted benefited from diesel that wasn't engineered fuel, meaning the fuel could sit around for a long time and be just as good.. those days are gone..

    the torque can't be denied, though.. :-D 
  • Options
    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RinkerYan said:
    2003 Yans 4LHA-STZP
    aye.. four cylinder direct injection turbo diesel... diesels are all about fuel delivery (and properly mixed with air, so they don't smoke.. I hate smoking diesels... )... you have the pressurizer at the point of injection, so yours has HEUI injection... those things are pricey.. you could implement slightly larger ones along with more air, and jump your power considerably..

    anyway..

    yours aren't going to be so picky about fuel... a matter of fact, they can run off a widely varying range of fuel quality.. there isn't really anything you've gotta worry about except for maintenance with that rig.. they follow a wash basin failure graph- meaning a high rate of failure at the beginning of service, and a high one at the end of service, with a long low flat line in between.. if you made it past the first spike, chances are you'll be fine for a long while.

  • Options
    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i don't know that you would want to rebuild them, anyway.. the compression needed for them to work is ridiculous.. those engines, after seating, are married for life dang near.. it would be more expensive, I'm thinking, to machine and match than it would be to start fresh.. not to mention corrosion.. the cylinder walls aren't going to like honing, much less boring, as the block itself isn't designed for rebuilding..

    the highest mass produced gasoline engine compression that i've ever heard of is 16:1, and that in a pretty expensive and finely engineered motorcycle engine.. no boost on those things, and you HAVE to run as high an octane as you can find, and never below 94 rand rating.. one pre-ignition on those things, and it's lights out with blown gaskets (best case), cracked/shattered pistons, broken/bent rods, or caps blown off the crank..

    your diesel likely reaches 17:1 compression ratio before boost.. each atmosphere of boost (14.7psi) is twice that- if you strike 15psi, your engine is cramming twice the air displacement into the cylinders, and you're running 34:1 compression ratio... that would launch the heads off of a gasoline engine into orbit.. :-)

    I'm going to hafta think on testing your turbo figures, as I don't know how that engine monitors its traffic.. is there a test port tapped into the intake? if so, you can do it manually... you can also extrapolate from the manifold absolute pressure sensor what is going past it, and based on temperature (density) of the air determine what those boost numbers are..

    for whatever it's worth, other than keeping the oil changed, having a turbo diesel requires one very important preventive maintenance step: make sure your air cleaner is always clean and clear.. and, you'd want more intake than you need as opposed to less... diesel igniting due to compression when there isn't enough air turns those injectors into tiny cutting torches, and will slice right through any grade of aluminum piston, or crack them.. more air also means lower exhaust gas temperatures, which is kinder to turbos and exhaust components.. it's likely the number one place diesel engine folks screw up, is the intake..
  • Options
    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,589 mod
    Alswagg said:
    Anyhow gettng back to the 410, if the new buyer was to remove the large muffler system and reroute the exhaust to the way I had intended, through the bottom of hull, the owner would pick up about 2 mph and .3 mpg at cruise...   The bottom exit exhaust was too difficult for production to understand, so we settled on a muffler system.  Crazy huh.  Al
    Pretty interesting with the muffler system.  I worked in a couple 420s but never really noticed them (I'd assume they had them as well?).  Anything I can learn to make the 400 more efficient?

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • Options
    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RinkerYan said:
    good read... and inline with my position on exhaust gas temperatures (EGT's).. pyrometers are the device that reads those..

    heavy loading, in terms of diesels, means providing more fuel than is ignited in the combustion chamber during the power stroke- which means it burns afterward, through the exhaust stroke and through the manifolds/pipes... black smoke.. grrrrrr...

    do you know what keeps them happily burning an appropriate air to fuel ratio? .... more air... :-D

    air keeps them from loading up and not ingesting air appropriate to throttle applied (fuel delivery).. it bogs a gas engine and you can feel/hear it.. a diesel just burns what you put in it, and you can monitor whether it's appropriate by the exhaust... black? heavy load, less air than needed... slight haze? all is well.. :-D

Sign In or Register to comment.