Starter?
rasbury
Member Posts: 8,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was able to get my a/c working, was only something plugged up in the discharge line....nice 4th watching fireworks right from the marina.
So, I had my dash ripped off, cut all the wires. Had a guy rewire new gauges and dash. Something was wrong - when you turned the key to first position the normal alarms would go off- but when you turned it to start, it made the most God awful shorting sound- somewhere in the engine compartment and I assume the starter- I think it was kicking out the thermal breaker on the starter- everything was dead on the key....and after a few, I think it reset and if you'd hit the key again , make the noise and then dead again. I think I did this like 3x. He figured out his wiring and it seemed to be fine. We did a trial run and everything seemed to be reading right on the gauges- everything was good. So, I launched and it did it....waited a minute started no issue- to the marina - fixed the a,/c- went to leave this am and the key totally dead-shore power all works, radio works on aux. First turn of the key I could hear something wirring- like the trim tabs- and then dead. Just seems to be engine related power. Did this guy ground out something and now it, or the starter is now failed?
So, I had my dash ripped off, cut all the wires. Had a guy rewire new gauges and dash. Something was wrong - when you turned the key to first position the normal alarms would go off- but when you turned it to start, it made the most God awful shorting sound- somewhere in the engine compartment and I assume the starter- I think it was kicking out the thermal breaker on the starter- everything was dead on the key....and after a few, I think it reset and if you'd hit the key again , make the noise and then dead again. I think I did this like 3x. He figured out his wiring and it seemed to be fine. We did a trial run and everything seemed to be reading right on the gauges- everything was good. So, I launched and it did it....waited a minute started no issue- to the marina - fixed the a,/c- went to leave this am and the key totally dead-shore power all works, radio works on aux. First turn of the key I could hear something wirring- like the trim tabs- and then dead. Just seems to be engine related power. Did this guy ground out something and now it, or the starter is now failed?
Comments
Perhaps it's your fuel pump priming?
Note: if starter doesn't kick over it doesn't necessarily mean the starter is bad, check voltage via multi meter to verify good positive and engine ground first. Id also want to spin the engine over by hand if all you get is a loud solid "clunk"
Not sure if you have a test light or multi meter but if this is the fuse you're talking about it is pretty simple to test IF you can fit down there. I'm assuming you mean this fuse? I guess technically every fuse is a thermal relay, short something to get it hot enough, she'll pop like a light bulb.
There's also the relay at the top of the block with the red reset you can test.
If you're getting power to the solenoid (round part the fuse attaches to) you can jump the starter by jumping the large post the fuse anchors to and one of the small solenoid posts, should be the small post that has a wire attached.
It is likely to arc.
If you have some alligator clips you can attach the alligator clip with long wire to the small prong on the solenoid and then touch the other end to the breaker relay terminal at the top of the engine. This would be much safer than laying down next to the motor and doing it. If the engine starts you don't want to play with having to crawl around avoiding the engine belt.
I don't want to give you any advice that could get you hurt or go boom.
We jump start large zero turns and tractors daily with identical style starters but they are in much more open spaces with much less fire/explosion hazards or belts that could eat fingers/shoe laces.
All of these parts can be tested with a combination of test light or cheap multimeter.
I have a couple really expensive multimeters but my favorite one for around the house/boat has been a 40 dollar eBay purchase with spike probes, alligator clip wires and even a temperature probe.
I didn't think I'd use the thermal probes but it's great for charging car ac. Plus the admiral no longer yells at me for stealing her meat thermometer then accidentally putting it in my tool box during cleanup instead of washed and back in her kitchen.
I don't understand completely how power flows- for example, if I use my test light on the fuse post and touch ground in the motor, key needs to be in start position or just on?
One dumb question on the starter, why two large posts and why two posts on the selonoid? Do each do the same thing or is there a plus/minus side?
So, unless I'm completely on the wrong track, when my guy put the gauges in, the large multi function which has fuel, temp, volts and something else a wire was wrong. All the gauges were reading weird and when I turned the key it was a dead short- when he corrected the gauge, they all seem to read properly. We went out one time and it started fine- that intial start amps I know is pretty hot- it seems the starter is the main highway for engine electronics- everything else works on shore power. So, if it started at all, that fuse on the starter should be OK then- it is not a resetting type fuse correct? So, if you can explain the process for checking power to it, I think the only thing I'm not sure of is key position, do I need someone to turn the key or just in the on position? If I don't have power there (which I'm going to guess there is) I'm looking forward- ? If there is no power at the fuse, does that mean it's bad or something further in the system that does not allow it to flow? Since the hot wire is basically an extension of the battery cable, I expect power at the starter, unless something is up with battery switch, but I don't think so- I assume it will be hot when the key is in just the on position..
Next, if I have power to the fuse, I can jump the starter and see if it engages the selonoid and turns the starter. I don't believe it will- on the idea of creating jumper wires so I'm not under the friggin motor, would they not have to be some HD wires for the amps? So, assuming I'm right and the selonoid does not engage then the fuse survived and the selonid did not? I don't think I can replace just the selonoid. Also, if I'm checking the fuse by touching the post the power goes to, that verifies power is getting to the fuse, but how do I know the fuse is transferring the power to the selonoid? I'm still concerned, what seems like something overheats and then reset for me...only to blow out again.
I appreciate your time sharing- if I ever retire I'm going to take some electric courses...
To jump you need a HOT positive wire to hit the "S" terminal. You see that this terminal is little, the wire going to it is little. Since you're only applying a very short jump on this wire you can use a wire as small or even a little bigger than the current wire on the "s" to do this jump.
You can make the jump wire about as long as you want/need. Clip one end on the "S" and then touch the other end to the pos battery terminal or the relay on top of the engine. Again, no need for heavy duty because you're just engaging the solenoid, the big main battery wire is delivering all the amps.
I wish I could help you more with the dash wiring issue. Your dash/key switch does power up all the engine functions/ECU. Unfortunately my experience with my boats is limited to non EFI, mechanical applications. In your application a functioning key switch is mandatory. A dead short under there could directly cause your non starting.
You can replace a faulty starter solenoid although with parts/labor a new starter might be cheaper.
While I'm not 100% on this, I'm pretty sure your starter system, the top relay and the main battery terminal on the starter will be hot so long as the battery switch is "ON"
You can always try with key off and again with key on.
Electricity can be tricky as you can't usually see it until you let the smoke out of it.
I picked up a battery load tester at the ol harbor freight , about 45 bucks, pretty nice
So, starter battery showed 12 volts with my meter first check but did not hold for long. I put the load tester and it was down to 9, hit the load and it just puked. The house battery charged up fine, load test was fine.
Based on that, you'd think if I go to bat 2 on the selector I'd have power- but dead. Next spot to look is the starter circuit. I can't really seem to find a wiring diagram that depicts what I see. I've attached a couple of pictures of the wiring - the main feature to see is the wire that goes from the selonoid to inside of the starter looks like the insulation is melted. Also, every picture I see of the starter , that wire is covered with like a black mesh material,- it's not there and the insulation is melted. I apparently left the key on, I reached down and wiggled one of the power cables and the key got hot- fuel pump, beep for the no oil pressure. I went to the key and turned it off and on and it worked normal. None of the wires are actually loose. Another site a guy on there is telling me the starter is not really fused- the ignition system is but the starter is hot. The T90 fuse protects the alternator. I really think, with no real electrical knowledge, when the guy had my gauges wired wrong, turned the key and heard a God awful grounding out sound, it was battery one and the starter grounding out. I did take it on a test flight before the 4th but I think I had to use both batteries- when I went out on the 4th I for sure did. Got one turn of a dead key. Waited a min and just hit it to start and it cranked. Then, that was it, dead next am...
I read back through @PickleRick post- my selonoid wiring is probably a little different- that R terminal position I think is for the electric fuel pump, the wire on top of the t 90 goes to the alternator and the one on the right is the power wire from the slave selonoid to the starter selonoid.
This starter is also pretty new..but I think it is toast..along with the battery.
If it doesn't turn over you haven't eliminated the possibility of it not having a good ground or positive feed so voltage down at the starter should then be tested as well as verifying good engine ground. It would suck to buy a new starter and this not fix the issue
You can always remove and take it to your local auto parts store for a bench test. If they ask about what vehicle it's off of they may be reluctant to test a boat starter so maybe say 1999 1500 Chevy with 5.7 2wd
If you were closer I'd say drop it off for a week or two and I'd get to the bottom of it.
Thanks- I wish I could drop it somewhere- and then call my insurance company.
Did find one interesting "junction box" of sorts I don't see in any of the manuals. I'm fresh water cooled, lots of hoses on the top right of the motor. I was looking because there is a wire, 12 gauge maybe, running hap hazzard from the starboard side main harness to it. And it is spliced like in 3 places!
Maybe with the bad battery the house battery was not getting charged. They both showed 12 volts with my volt meter- then I bought the little load tester and saw bat one was done. Living and learning!