Loss of confidence backing my 360 into the slip

echandler1971

I’ve had several “scary” situations recently, where scary really means that I almost bumped into another boat in my marina (not exactly death-defying). Anyways, the issue is that I am in a tidal creek, I have isinglass over my cockpit (acts as a sail), and there are 2 goalpost pilings marking my slip that feel like they are 2” wider than my boat. Furthermore, my next door neighbors boat bayside of me sticks out past that piling into the channel so if I’m drifting outward in the creek, my swim platform could meet his stern if I overshoot on an outgoing tide. 

When I’ve had to redo the run several times due to over or undershooting, I start to panic and lose confidence, but I end up getting the job done. I have twin VP duoprop SX-M and an underpowered bow thruster.
I tend to use just one of the engines and steer towards the direction I want the stern to move in reverse (kicking the boat in the direction I need it). I try to start pretty far out so I can sort of align with the goalposts, but the current sometimes is strong and I end up getting dangerously close to hitting the fishing boat next to me. 

Since I have the duoprops, I don’t think the method of leaving the wheel straight and driving the boat with just the throttles like a Bobcat will work well. 

What advice do you have? I haven’t really found a YouTube video for my specific situation of twin duo prop I/O drives in a tidal creek. 

YYZRC

Not a tidal creek but I changed slips and I am now in somewhat of a corner where I have to spin 180 and back up about 100’. There’s a big Carver moored on my starboard side and a finger that sticks out about 30’ off my bow. If the Carver is there, I have about 16’ between the end of the finger and the hull of the Carver. 

I have found that higher speed reversing in bursts with the wheel centred works best for me. I line up straight and bring both engines to about 800 rpm in reverse, cycling between reverse and neutral in bursts. If I need to turn, I lower the rpm on the appropriate drive. I lean h a r d on the bow thruster.

The biggest change for me was previously I always tried to use the bow thruster as little as possible (maybe I was embarrassed?) but now I am not shy about it. 

I may install a stern thruster over the winter as I feel the extra confidence it would provide wouldn’t hurt. 

aero3113

Yes, keep the wheel straight and use your throttles to steer. When I bought my 330 (my first twin engine boat) the previous owner gave me a good tip. With your hands on the throttles, point your thumb so they point at each other. The direction your thumb is pointing is where the bow or stern will go in forward or reverse.

aero3113

Also, you have better control when your drives are all the way down.

toolmaker312

I have a 312 that is  11,3 wide pulling into a 13 ft wide birth. First year I barely went out. Then I was told to keep the steering straight and drive with throttles. The big hint for me was to point you rthumbs inward (toward each other). When your right hand is forward your forward thumb points to the left and that is the way the bow goes. Whether you are in neutral or reverse your forward hand thumb tells you where the bow goes. A lot of forward while reverse combos and both reverse worked for me. Also I try to pull against the wind and current. Hope I didn't overstate the obvious. Full confidence now

aero3113

@echandler1971 take a look at this video.

https://youtu.be/F2TNpfvn6QA?si=NakSU72JuhN6pDjL

LaRea

Maybe the thruster isn't producing full thrust because it needs maintenance or repairs.  Have you inspected the blades, battery and wiring? 

I always used steering when docking with counter-rotating props.  Still can't understand why people would discard such a useful tool.  

aero3113

@LaRea ,I do use the wheel when needed but I would say 80-90% is throttle adjustments.

echandler1971

LaRea said:

Maybe the thruster isn't producing full thrust because it needs maintenance or repairs.  Have you inspected the blades, battery and wiring? 

I always used steering when docking with counter-rotating props.  Still can't understand why people would discard such a useful tool.  

I’m thinking that it’s the gearbox between the solenoids and the fan. I plan on replacing that this winter it kind of sounds like a blender with ice in it.

echandler1971

OK, next time I have her out in the bay I’m going to play around with the thumb method again. I may have been too green at the time when I first tried. Thank you for the advice. I really appreciate it. I will keep you posted how it works for me.

rmrstlmo

I only used throttles on my 340 and usually did fine with it.  When I got my 390 I continued that practice but was having quite a bit of difficulty. About two months into ownership I realized the steering wheel was turning on its own as I used the throttles.  This made the boat move in directions that I wasn't expecting.  Once I realized what was happening I now hold my knee on the steering wheel and have much better control.  When you practice out in the bay make sure your steering wheel isn't moving on its own while using the throttles.  Good luck!

johnny44

I agree with @LaRea - if you have the ability to use the steering to dock it is just another tool to have in your toolbox. But it takes practice so it becomes muscle memory. You just need to pick a nice day and practice over and over again...and then do it the following week.

Stern drives operate differently than twin screw inboards. I had a Silverton 34 Convertible (without a bow thruster) and those inboards could spin the boat on dime (because of the location of the props). Stern drive props are located on the back of the boat and while they will spin the boat just by adjusting the throttles, it is not as easy as having twin screw inboards.

With my (former) 350 EC, if it wasn't windy and there wasn't much current, I never used the wheel, just centered the steering and used the throttles and bow thruster. It is very important to have the wheel centered so the engines are straight. I had a steering angle sensor installed on my vessel view so I knew when it was centered - this is very important with stern drives.

Now when it was windy or the current was moving pretty good, I used both methods (that is just using the throttles, and also using the steering wheel when needed) - because I just couldn't get the boat to spin the way I needed it to in tough conditions.

To LeRea's point - if you have the tool at your disposal, you should use it when it is needed. When docking a single engine stern drive, your steer it into the slip because it iw the only way to get it there. Again though - this takes some practice and getting used to so you don't panic. And when steering, you always want to make sure to go back to center when going back to using the throttles only.

You can do so really cool things when using steering AND throttles at the same time. You can actually walk your boat sideway by turning the wheel all the way to one side and putting one engine in forward and one in reverse. You just have to spend some time getting used to it so it becomes second nature after a while.

You will mess us from time to time. You just have to be going slow. Neutral is your friend! If you are going slow, there isn't much damage that you will do to another boat by bumping it with just the current taking you into it.

Here are a couple of videos that explain how to move a twin stern drive boat sideways:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4RWfuv0bI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6YZPlK6Ug

SeaHare

with sterndrives you gotta use the steering wheel. Ive tried to just use throttles and it is a PITA and it also doesnt work well. Straight inboards are another story.

PickleRick

Pretend you're a sailboat then everyone will expect you to hit other boats. 


Also, getting that bow thruster and adding a stern thruster will pretty much put it on cheat mode

Pat310

@echandler1971 when i purchased my 310 i hired a captain to teach myself and two sons close quarter handling. 45 minutes going over theory then 2 hours of taking turns practicing. Invaluable and worth every penny. Taught us to back in using throttles or steering.  Told me use what you feel comfortable with. I’m a throttle steerer and in 4 years only touched my neighbors boat once with about 2 feet of room. When your out practicing, come to a complete stop near a stationary object and learn where your boat pivots when you split the shifters. That was a big help for me

Dream_Inn

LaRea said:

I always used steering when docking with counter-rotating props.  Still can't understand why people would discard such a useful tool.  

I couldn't agree more!  Using steering can help you walk your boat sideways and if it is a long amount of backing, allows you to counter the current or wind.  Then just bump your bow thruster to counter the force from your steering. 

(for example, if you are backing and need stern to go to stbd, turn wheel full CW & bump in reverse a few times, in & out.  While doing that, you know that your bow will want to move to port, so bump thruster to keep it from moving port.  If you are close to your slip and need to move a bit forward and still to stbd, Turn wheel CCW & do the same, but bumping in fwd, knowing your bow will want to move again to the port.  If you wanted to walk the boat completely sideways to the stbd, you would rotate between both of these two movements quickly and the boat would not move forward or reverse, just sideways.  It is really fun to try and get good at.  I have to do this a lot when going into fuel docks.)

davidbrooks

I agree with everyone here about just steering using the throttles.  I have moved to a smaller boat with just one engine and i really miss the maneuverability of two engines.  Don't miss the maint or fuel costs though.  So the only other thing I would throw out there is to drop your canvas as you are coming into your port.  I feel your pain.  I used to feel like even a light 5-8mph breeze would push me around when i had the sides up on the canvas.    I used to just unzip the side panels and back piece to allow the wind to go through.  It did help.  The other thought is to not try to fully come in by engine always when you are really worried about other boats.  I used to get close and then walk it in with a pole or lines.  My nemesis was the frame to the ladder on my swim platform.  You might as well as just mounted a chisel to the swim platform.

echandler1971

Dream_Inn said:

LaRea said:

I always used steering when docking with counter-rotating props.  Still can't understand why people would discard such a useful tool.  

I couldn't agree more!  Using steering can help you walk your boat sideways and if it is a long amount of backing, allows you to counter the current or wind.  Then just bump your bow thruster to counter the force from your steering. 

(for example, if you are backing and need stern to go to stbd, turn wheel full CW & bump in reverse a few times, in & out.  While doing that, you know that your bow will want to move to port, so bump thruster to keep it from moving port.  If you are close to your slip and need to move a bit forward and still to stbd, Turn wheel CCW & do the same, but bumping in fwd, knowing your bow will want to move again to the port.  If you wanted to walk the boat completely sideways to the stbd, you would rotate between both of these two movements quickly and the boat would not move forward or reverse, just sideways.  It is really fun to try and get good at.  I have to do this a lot when going into fuel docks.)

This is essentially what I do now. I do find it better, especially when the tide is really moving down the creek to give myself a long running start to slowly adjust the wheel and BT on idle reverse with just 1 engine, but I just get those times when I just goes to pot and I’m in a panic situation with either side of my slip and have to semi floor-it to escape hitting something. I do have a family member holding tight on the swim platform to jump on the finger dock and pull me in. 

I looked at the videos and I’m intrigued with trying out full to port or stbd with one in idle forward and one in idle reverse (supposedly sideways movement that way). I have yet to get the boat out since I made this post though. I’ll post back with results and maybe even video. 

First, I gotta yank my ProIsoCharge that is back to relay clicking faster than the best Morse Coder. Putting in a fet isolator and cutting my lossss. 

goalie59

By no way do I call myself an expert as I have had many landings go south on me over the years. I do agree with all the advise above and totally agree with the experience of doing it over and over. Every boat I have owned has handled different and there is definitely a learning curve with each one. A stern thruster would definitely help with your confidence and get that bow thruster straightened around too. I would go out in calm conditions and minimal traffic until you know how to work the boat with the thrusters. This will build confidence and then you can work on handling it when the winds and currents are up. I do find that my current boat with inboards and diesels respond much quicker and therefore there is not that lag in timing for boat movement that I would get with outdrives. Good luck , have fun and use your boat and it will get better. 

rasbury

I was reading through these posts and tried the thumb method but I just go around in circles?

aero3113

Funny @rasbury !!😂