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RinkerYan.... an idea for you:
212rowboat
Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just finished a project that was almost more than I could chew at several points.. but I got it done..
Firstly, if you're not already familiar with it, read up on diesel deterioration..
I just installed a auxiliary tank in my trucks bed.. it will be great for the upcoming drive season, and will give me a 2k mile range between fills.. under load, I should get at least 1500miles... This is good for shopping for quality fuel (IMPORTANT in high pressure common rail engines), but also shopping for cheaper (fill in states with less taxes)..
Carrying that much fuel means that sometimes I'll be carrying excess, which gives a chance for it to spoil.... Unless... And here is where I thought of you and all the fuel you hold in your floater...
I put this together to transfer from aux tank to main tank whilst underway: (check attachment).. using the orientation of the pic, what you're seeing is from top to bottom- airdog150 pump/filter/water separator.. next, a solenoid valve (normally closed state).. the card above it is a timer board which uses relay logic, and activates the solenoid valve, allowing it to run for three minutes (you can set it wherever you want, from one second to 60 minutes) .. the two little black blocks are 155db buzzers, which let me know its running, so I have indicator all is well back there while driving down the road.. you likely don't need those..
At any rate, I've got about $600 in this set up, and it would work perfect for you.. if you ran the pump off the same timer board, but had it set to repeat 60min on, 60 min off, and you ran it for a full day once at least every two weeks, you'd have no worries about tainted fuel.. add some chems, flip the switch, and walk away... You could even run another board on it to activate via cell or network (interwebby) ping.. it would exercise your batteries, too..
Investing in fuel is expensive.. not taking care of it is additional expense that sucks when you gotta toss it, or even worse when you gotta replace a motor because of it..
One thing I would do in your application, is add another water separator and an additional bigger micron filter prior to the airdog.
Oh, I opted for transparent PVC threaded lines on either end... It will stain as it ages, but the in side should faster than the out side.. its just a cheap indicator.
Other pics just for helluvit... :-) I put a tool box behind the aux tank, fabricated some panels, topped the sides with hinged panels, carpeted it (dog loves it).. all the tow gear is under the passenger side, pump on drivers side.. had to tap the bed and run line to onboard tank..
Firstly, if you're not already familiar with it, read up on diesel deterioration..
I just installed a auxiliary tank in my trucks bed.. it will be great for the upcoming drive season, and will give me a 2k mile range between fills.. under load, I should get at least 1500miles... This is good for shopping for quality fuel (IMPORTANT in high pressure common rail engines), but also shopping for cheaper (fill in states with less taxes)..
Carrying that much fuel means that sometimes I'll be carrying excess, which gives a chance for it to spoil.... Unless... And here is where I thought of you and all the fuel you hold in your floater...
I put this together to transfer from aux tank to main tank whilst underway: (check attachment).. using the orientation of the pic, what you're seeing is from top to bottom- airdog150 pump/filter/water separator.. next, a solenoid valve (normally closed state).. the card above it is a timer board which uses relay logic, and activates the solenoid valve, allowing it to run for three minutes (you can set it wherever you want, from one second to 60 minutes) .. the two little black blocks are 155db buzzers, which let me know its running, so I have indicator all is well back there while driving down the road.. you likely don't need those..
At any rate, I've got about $600 in this set up, and it would work perfect for you.. if you ran the pump off the same timer board, but had it set to repeat 60min on, 60 min off, and you ran it for a full day once at least every two weeks, you'd have no worries about tainted fuel.. add some chems, flip the switch, and walk away... You could even run another board on it to activate via cell or network (interwebby) ping.. it would exercise your batteries, too..
Investing in fuel is expensive.. not taking care of it is additional expense that sucks when you gotta toss it, or even worse when you gotta replace a motor because of it..
One thing I would do in your application, is add another water separator and an additional bigger micron filter prior to the airdog.
Oh, I opted for transparent PVC threaded lines on either end... It will stain as it ages, but the in side should faster than the out side.. its just a cheap indicator.
Other pics just for helluvit... :-) I put a tool box behind the aux tank, fabricated some panels, topped the sides with hinged panels, carpeted it (dog loves it).. all the tow gear is under the passenger side, pump on drivers side.. had to tap the bed and run line to onboard tank..
Comments
I think we're done here.... Sorry for bothering you.
Chemical reference numbers (CAS): 8008-20-6 and 70892-10-3
What is fuel oil?
Fuel oil is a general term for a number of burnable liquids made from crude oil. Most common is Fuel Oil No.1 (also called kerosene), range oil, and jet fuel (JP5). Fuel oils 1-D and 2-D are diesel fuels. Fuel oil No. 2 is home heating oil, and fuel oil No. 4 is a diesel fuel for boats. All fuel oil mixtures have similar chemical and physical properties.
RY, let Google be your friend....... interesting reading on a cold, snowy evening.
Mark
2019 MTX20 Extreme
The fuel is interchangeable on diesel engines prior to high pressure common rail systems, but they aren't used the same... It's like saying propane used for engines and propane used for grills are the same.. one of them better be filtered, or it will wreck the device it goes in to... :-) but even then, propane is ignited, oil is compressed.. the injector tips on a modern diesel are tinier than the naked eye can see and have up to 30k psi behind them.. one good debris, and it could be lights out.
I feel fairly confident i could run 500ppm through my rig if I polished it good before using it.. its a very expensive experiment, though, that I'll only do in an emergency...
Burning that oil, like your heater does, and injecting it for compression ignition are two different things. You can burn all kinds of impurities, but you can't use it in a motor.. your yans can likely run a wide range of quality, but not near as wide as the oil fired furnace can.. the newer the engine, the more particular it is going to be about fuel quality.. the fuel market will most likely adjust to demands.. the diesel crowd seems to believe that ulsd will become the only one available regularly dispensed, except at fuel farms and marinas.. the fuel farms and marinas will be pushed into buying single deliveries as opposed to being on a route, which means the will be buying and storing larger quantities, which means it has more opportunity to be spoiled before its pumped into customers rigs..
It's an epa thing, similar to the ethanol push, and equally bad for oil burners that ethanol is for gassers.
PC BYC, Holland, MI
PC BYC, Holland, MI
I just want my investment to last a long time... They'd rather I have to replace it every five years..
If you want to know my biggest political gripe, its that regulation should take place that disallows expensive products to have a planned obsolescence.. trucks, cars, boat engines, appliances, tools, computers, phones, ****- salt and pepper shakers... It drives me madd.
Interesting paper on diesel fuel storage recommendations by BP.
Mark
2019 MTX20 Extreme
I'm thinking a good filtration that turns the fuel over at least once every month is a good thing.. I won't have that issue with my rig because I'll use it well within that period, but if I have to allow it to sit, I can flip the pump on and allow it to circulate on a timed session... RY could likely benefit from a monthly turn of filtering through the winter, no?
you can get the coleman, or skip past them and go to who makes them for coleman (I'll recall their name and post it.. it's stuck in my brain housing group somewhere).. if you were to locate a 20w, you can charge during daylight hours and use the pumps at night.. depending on the pump you use, you can do this with under 8a draw, and you only need to do it for an hour or so maybe three three nights a month (non-consecutive)- so the batteries could not only handle that, but cycling them in that manner will keep them fresher longer...
Altronix makes several models of timer boards.. there are some off of eBay that are in the $20 range that can do a lot more- including weekly cycles, which is what I'd aim for... if you purchase a pump capable of moving 100gph, and you set the timer to operate in 20min cycles, you've moved roughly 20 gallons.. if you do that once a week for a month (four weeks), you've turned your fuel for that month.. it doesn't have to turn the entire contents all at once, though that is preferable, it just has to turn it about every 30 days or so...
see if you can pull from the lowest point in the bladder, and return to the highest.. water is still heavier than diesel, so allowing the fuel to settle between cycles may allow you to keep water out better (and some of the chemical reactions that deteriorate diesel relies on water, so you're killing to birds, so to speak).. the sediment will also be there.. the pump will be happier longer too, if you pull from the bottom and have it inline with that lowest point- pumps push, they don't pull.. pulling fluid with them will cause cut into their service life.
spark is not as big an issue with the oil squeezers.. diesel has to be hot to fume enough to ignite via spark... that said, containing the spark (i.e. pump and control board) still isn't a bad idea...
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-12D-Electric-Diesel/dp/B001QVTI5U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1386082378&sr=8-3&keywords=diesel+pump
these are a good choice, low power consumption, though they flow less.. they can be ran longer- as in hour long sessions that likely draw less than a 8a for twenty minutes.. plus, they may match up to your engines pump, and it's always nice to have a functional duplicate on board, in the case of one failing (which is why I used the airdog in my application)..
http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Diesel-4TNV98-Socket-Yanmar/dp/B00EKCG4LI/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1386082378&sr=8-14&keywords=diesel+pump
I don't know- are you a 24v system? if so:
http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Priming-Diesel-Hitachi-Excavator/dp/B00EKCRED0/ref=sr_1_60?ie=UTF8&qid=1386082720&sr=8-60&keywords=diesel+pump
PC BYC, Holland, MI
you can make two of them, or just use the one swapping over tanks every week or two..
you'd have to tap as close to the supply lines origin as you feel comfortable, and then tap somewhere into the 'return to tank' lines as well, both with a T fitting, either threaded, quick release, or barbed/hose clamped... I'd rec quick release fuel fittings, and I'd suggest not only a ball valve, but a male threaded fitting so as you can cap them when you're out and about, or working on the other tank....
the powering is simple.. pull a lead off of the battery switch, or straight from one of your batteries (deep cell preferable) ... fuse the hot line based on the pump draw, use at least 12ga line for a short run, 10ga for a long run.. if you use a solar charger, run it straight to the battery, too...
PC BYC, Holland, MI
PC BYC, Holland, MI
I think its only a $2-3k upcharge.
the diesel particulate filter is a serious problem.. it chokes the engines exhaust flow, which leads to excess fuel consumption, excessive heat, and cracked valve seats all by itself- it literally collects particles for burning off- which it does in one of two ways: either it adds exhaust fluid and fires it off with a heated sensor or spark, OR, (and this is nuts) the injectors on the back two cylinders of the engine remain open during the exhaust stroke to push raw diesel into the DPF... where it is fired off by heat generated by the engine, or it is touched off with spark too... you literally have a fire burning in your vehicle underneath you while you're driving down the road..
doing the 'regeneration cycle' via the DPF via open injectors and raw diesel washes the cylinders, as you can imagine.. washing the cylinders means fuel escapes past the rings and into the crankcase.. diesel doesn't lube very well, but it does cool.. so, if you're running a v8, cylinders 7 and 8, when regenerating, will be considerably cooler than the forward six, which is **** gaskets and mating surfaces.. it's really good timing to blow head gaskets... piston faces crack/break.. valves faces crack... awesome, no?
now, lets talk about exhaust gas recirculation valves... they dump raw exhaust into the intake.. collected north of the DPF.. soot and all.. I've seen intake manifolds with more than a 1/4" of soot collected in the runners, and with less than 25k miles on the engine.. pulling straight up hot gas into the intake means it has to be cooled, so they have EGR coolers, which runs engine coolant around the pipes on it's way to the intake... they rupture, as you can imagine, due to the acidic nature of the exhaust+temps reaction to the pipes.. WHEN they rupture, coolant is introduced into the intake/induction... coolant, like water, doesn't compress too well.. piston faces crack or explode.. head gaskets rupture.. cranks themselves break..
I may or may not know somebody pretty well that has removed all of the emissions equipment from their engine.. that person may or may not have marveled at the reduction of heat through the exhaust- dropping from 1200+* to around 450~500*... turbo seals last longer.. engines cool better.. wear on cylinder walls is reduced... wear on all rotating parts to include valve train is reduced.. power production is dramatically improved... fuel economy is dramatically improved... hugely.. in the class of 6~10MPG's more.. which brings us to:
why the emissions? If the parts and pieces designed to reduce them cut into engine service life nearing 75%, they cut into power production at almost 50%, and they cost about 30% fuel economy, and all in effort to reduce emissions 30%, where is the gain?
hypothetical: my friend runs his truck 300 miles tugging 15k# behind him, and burns 30ga of fuel @10mpg, and completes his job with his fully emissioned rig.. My friend has some sort of miraculous accident while waiting for his return leg load to be loaded, to where his emissions fall off the truck.. On the return leg he pulls 300 miles with 15k# behind him, and burns 20ga of fuel @15mpg... he burned roughly 33% less fuel doing the same thing on the return leg.. he burned 33% MORE on the out leg, but reduced his emissions 30%.. he made more emissions on the OUTBOUND leg...
if it's all in the name of emissions, why is this scenario absolutely true?
don't forget this, fellas: diesels burn oil, and the byproduct is soot you can see.. gassers put out just as much, but you can't see it.. just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there..
don't even get me going on fuel delivery designs.. the way they are designed, you can't run anything heavier than 500ppm #1... and, you're taking a risk to run anything but ULSD 15ppm #2... why? just so they can get the tax out of you because now you HAVE to purchase refinery produced fuel? this is the precise opposite reasoning for using ethanol.. it makes zero sense..
They sure are still selling a ton of Powerstrokes, Duramax, and Cummins.....
And I'll be ditching mine as soon as the warranty is about to expire, as much as I love it!
Mark
2019 MTX20 Extreme
Devices were added that terminate the engines running if it doesn't check out. Unplug a pyro or a egr sensor and you'll be locked out until cleared.. some, like in pro year 07 are timed lock outs (30min).. newer ones, since the makers have been given time to test (using us as testers) lock you out until a tech unlocks it (or you've bought a device capable of unlocking it, which is a big business for folks)..
Yeah, they're selling... But when word escapes to the average Joe about what's going on with them, there will be a steep drop off... But.. silver lining: prices will drop.. somebody will figure out a way to defeat the emissions.. people who pay attention will have nice rig for less cost..
I invested about $40k in my rig which had a sticker of $70k new.. I dropped about $5k carefully in researched mods.. instead of mine being tired at 150k miles and dead at 200k, it will be thoroughly broken in and eyeballing at least 500k miles... That's my target.. 7.3's and 5.9 12 or 24v's could expect that with ease.. the old Detroit's could too.. the 6.7 in oval or cummins, and the new duramax will be lucky to see 250k, and only if they're well maintained at that..
PC BYC, Holland, MI