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reverse polarity

rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Rinker Express Cruisers Forum
Brought the boat home to do some tasks, plugged the shore power into my 110 using the same cords as used before and got reverse polarity, have not seen that in the last two months of plugging in...then nothing comes on. Did a little archives and google search and this does not sound good...
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you use a connector to connect from the house to the cord for the boat?  If the blades you plugged into the house with do not have the one wider than the other, you can reverse the polarity easy.  Basically it means you have the hot and the neutral reversed.  It's not safe on land as you would be switching the neutral and not the hot side, in the water is is very dangerous as if the bonding is bad the current goes into the water and can kill a person, let alone the corrosion damage to outdrives, etc.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Black- I have a connector on my shore, my extension cord is three prong so it plugs in only one way and it's the same set up I have been using at the house so very confused as to what could have changed. I plug into a surge protector and then to the house. I had the boat at my storage place, plugged it in there but did not check the polarity there..could something have been damaged there and now have the problem? When I first plugged it in, the shore power light was on. When I hit the breaker for the battery charger(or any other breaker) it went to reverse and the generator light came on although the Gen breaker was off and I even have the master switch below  turned off. I messed around with the chord,checking that I had power and when I looked again at the panel no lights were on on the panel. Will look at it all again this am but very puzzled!

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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There should be nothing to 'damage' with reverse polarity, as I noted before it is just swapped hot and neutral. Everything should work, just not as safe. The reverse polarity light should be on immediately (if reversed) once you switch the AC breaker on, not when you turn on other breakers.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nope, just checked....with no breakers on, gen off and shore power on plug it in and the shore power light is on,,,,turn any breaker on and it goes to reverse and the gen light is on but the gen is turned off and the battery type switch below is also off....very odd....
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK. I have to admit I'm at a loss on this one now. That sounds jacked up. Nothing on your AC side works now?

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    that Is correct...black, this is at my house and not on a marine hook up....adapter on my shore power cord to 110V...is it something to do with house hold power that varies "direction" or something? I usually am at a loss for the most basic of electrical stuff...this is so far over my head to even understand why power flows one direction or another and why it matters as a long as it's a flowin!
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try it without the surge protector.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    A handy item to keep aboard the boat.  A polarity detector available at almost any hardware store.  It is about the size and shape of one of those cheater adaptors for converting an ungrounded outlet to accomodate a plug that has the two prongs plus ground pin.

    It has lights that indicates if all correct or if not, what wires are swapped.

    Tony
    Salt Shaker 342
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will try it without the surge...its the same set up,same wires,same everything...except I knocked off my vhf antenna and my tv antenna...that's the only difference I can remotely think is different....
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Get a polarity detector...check your house, it is very possible for an outlet to be wired backwards.  120VAC in a house has 3 wires: hot (black), white (neutral), and bare copper for the ground.  The problem is a swapped black and white for reversed polarity.

    Your tv antenna is powered too, if you knocked off the antenna, make sure you unplug the powered amp for the antenna.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ah, that is something to try. As far as the outlet, using the same one I've been using, lives here 25years and nothing has changed there. Will pull the power to the tv, so if that is shorted, that would cause the problem?
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And just to be clear, that is the little black box by the tv that has the jacks , unplug those jacks?
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That box has power to it, either pull the power or just unscrew the coax for now.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Or do I need to disconnect completely?
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    10-4, will give it a whirl tonight! So are you thinking I have a short which would cause the reverse polarity??
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's my guess. Wierd situation you have.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so, in reviewing all this, when I had the boat over at my son in laws, if he plugged it in wrong at the outlet, if there were a power surge, nothing on the boat would have been harmed as far as the 120 volt system? Take out the main shore breaker? I would expect a particular device if I had something plugged in might have fried but from what I'm reading in the posts, nothing would have happened to the boat electrical system?
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    120V Power surges usually kill electronics: radios, TV, microwaves, etc.  Reverse polarity will not hurt anything plugged in, just might hurt you when working on it as the 'hot' is always on and you are switching the neutral.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    10-4, You stated this before but just double checking...sometimes you have to talk to be like I'm a 4 year old before I get it. I will check the TV when I get home and have been doing a lot of reading-sounds like a more common problem at the dock when you travel to other countries or a dock that does not do wiring correctly. I have read nothing like the problem I am having and those that do, stuff still works on the boat just not safely....my meter shows volts so it looks like power coming in is not the problem, just when you try to use it and a short is tripping it off but puzzled why it is trying to turn the gen on to run AC powered stuff..the radio works and the engine will turn so the DC side of it seems OK......will check that tonight but about ready to take the day off as it is just driving me nuts! The TV is the only thing new that has happened...we were at a dock using the shore with no issues and knocked off the antena on the way home and that's where it all started...I did have it at my house before I took it to storage but I don't recall if I plugged it in or not. I'm sitting here thinking about it...when I pulled from the doc, I did what your not supposed to do is turn everything off before I "de plugged". When I got home I did plug it in as I recall because the a/c came on briefly, it ran about as long as it took to plug in the shore and head down in the boat so it ran for maybe less than 10 seconds...could that have set up the problem? Then it went to son n laws and then back to my house the other day where it all "started"...I think this is the timeline....
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    point of the rant is I think it was working after I knocked the antena off.....will check anyway to be sure.
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    HamdogHamdog Member Posts: 247 ✭✭

    rasbury,

    Point of advice. Always turn everything off starting at your galley panel. Turn the individual items off first. Then turn the master switch off to shore power. Then the power to the cord, then disconnect the cord.  

    When plugging in shore power, everything should be turned off. Then turn on power at the plug, then the main switch, then individual items. Go in reverse order when turning everything off.

    It scares me when you said your A/C ran briefly when you plugged in shore power which means it was turned on. That could cause Reverse Polarity.

    So energize your power cord first, then energize your panel. Then energize each individual item. Reverse order when turning off.


    "Wetted" Bliss 2005 Rinker 342 - Black Hull - Twin Mercruiser 350 Mags - BIII's
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    HamdogHamdog Member Posts: 247 ✭✭

    Same thing when running the generator.

    Turn off the individual switches, then the generator main power switch at panel, then turn your generator off. Reverse when turning on.

    "Wetted" Bliss 2005 Rinker 342 - Black Hull - Twin Mercruiser 350 Mags - BIII's
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ham, so if the a/c might have caused the polarity, then what is the fix? everything was powered down and powered back up.
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I understand you correctly on how things are working (or improperly working) you turn on your AC main braker: no reverse polarity light, turn on another breaker and then the light comes on and your gen light comes on too?  That sounds like a major issue: i.e. shorts/arcing in breakers/wiring.  Maybe a picture (or series of) going step by step of what is lighting up would better explain this.

     

     

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep Black you have the picture....everything turned off on the breaker panel, plug in the shore power and turn the breaker on to shore, it lights up and and shows voltage. If I turn on any of the A/C items, like the battery charger or the acces., or anything on the panel (except for the range oddly enough) the shore goes out and the polarity goes on and the light for the gen goes on even though the breaker is on the shore and the gen is off.....this is really starting to get to me, especially if I have done this! The only other thing I have touched on the electrical stuff is I pulled the fridge out as it does not work just to see if it was hooked up and it is, but it does not work.  I will also check and make sure that switch is off but that was a while ago and would not think it would come into play on this....there is no burnt smell of anything like a breaker burnt or anything like that....I would be happy to add the pictures if you think that would help but I'd say you have it.
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does the breaker trip when the power goes out, or it just goes dark?  No panel breakers or the breakers at the battery switches are tripping? 

    I'm betting on that surge protector being the problem.  You would need a really big one to handle the power need potential of the boat.  Most home ones are no where near rated for the amp draw.  This could explain the power cut out too..it cannot handle it.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no breakers are tripping...everything that is supposed to work on the dc side still continues to work. I did try it without the surge protector and got the same, it is however a really big one but not sure the amp rating. Any thoughts on why the range breaker does not cause the fault? I tried to turn the range on but there probably is not enough power to run it but it does allow me to turn that breaker on without the polarity issue which I'm sure is more confusing yet. I just went to west marine and bought a new connector that would by pass my shore line....it plugs right into the boat and then my house cord plugs into that so I can eliminate the converter and the cord, I have a second extension cord I can also use and then I guess work forward of that. Did you see the comments on the a/c being left on briefly? Could that be part of the issue? It was on 10 seconds or less but I know sometimes that's enough!
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    raybo3raybo3 Administrator Posts: 5,459 admin
    Ok let me chime in here. A friend of mine had a reverse polarity problem on his StingRay boat. Could not get that light to turn off no matter what we tried. Turns out the problem was a bad diode on the RP light. Replaced the light unit with a new light and diode and problem was solved.
    2002 342 Fiesta Vee PC Point Of Pines YC Revere MA. popyc.org     raybo3@live.com
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    nhsdnhsd Member Posts: 182 ✭✭✭
    Get a cheapo plug in polarity tester as has been mentioned. Test your house outlet, if OK then test the end of your cord before plugging it into your boat. If that is OK, then plug the boat in, turn on the AC breaker and plug the tester into a boat outlet to see if the outlet actually has reverse polarity. If it doesn't then the issue is likely the RP light like Raybo says. If it does, then you know that you actually have something within the boat that is causing the problem and can work from there. It is highly useful to narrow the issue as much as possible as easily as possible.

    Dave

    2002 Captiva 212, 5.0 220 hp, Alpha 1, 1.62 gears

    Moon Township, PA - boating in the Ohio River

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    well, sounds like mine was even more simple than that. I have a rule I always break and always assume it's the worst without checking through from the start. I bought a new adapter from west marine that does not use a shore cable at all- one end plugs into the boat and the other, into the extension cord.  Wala, problem solved, Not sure if it was the adapter or the cord but at this point I am so relieved! I tried to pull the coax on the tv also but plugged that back in for grins and still no problem...just a bad dam cord/adapter which should have been the first thing I checked.

    Thanks all for the input!
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