2005 Kohler 5e Generator issue - Pulsating

craigswardmtb

So I ran the genny for the first time a few weeks ago and I noticed some pulsating/surging upon startup but then it ran fine. Last weekend we went out and went to start the genny and it would only surge and not even out to the usual consistent idle. It actually stalled after a while. So i went to the most notable headaches first: I changed the spark plugs, the old ones appeared a bit fouled (ngkbpr4es), it still surged although would not stall now. then replaced the impeller (the old one was in tact and I'm getting good flow). This did not resolve the issue. I was going to change the water separator/fuel filter cartridge but didn't have the correct tool to get that thing spun off. I will fill the new cartridge with sea foam system cleaner and fresh gas and see if this helps. It seemed strange that the linkage on the carb was jockeying back and forth almost hunting for a happy place while running. There are two linkages, and the one that was really hunting was further forward on the genny (forward being the closest linkage to the spark plugs). When I held the linkage it seemed to run ok. Has anyone seen this or a similar issue? It sounds like fuel related to me but it DID run great upon first startup this season. The tanks fuel was heavily treated before winterization. Any ideas or suggestions on a fix?

Black_Diamond

Is your spark arrestor clean? Surging is usually a lean issue. Fuel filter could do it. Corroded spark plug connectors too.

brianluck

I've been told the trick to a good running kholer is run it as much as you can. Those carbs are so quick to gum up from sitting

Black_Diamond

Running it a lot is good. The 5e has way more 'bugs' than that from personal experience. 10 years of mine never running right, I think I found the problem: leave the service door off from the sound enclosure. I kid you not.

craigswardmtb

Well the new filter and sea foam didn't fix it. Now for cleaning the arrestor. The choke seems to be operating fine. It pulsates with the throttle on startup but then closes. What do you think next steps should be? Clean carb? Removing that thing, which sits furthest aft in pretty tight quarters is not going to be fun. Or the arrestor for that matter.

brianluck

Do you have an electric fuel pump or mechanical? Surging sounds like it's starved for fuel. Wonder if your getting enough fuel

Black_Diamond

The spark arrestor: you need to remove the end panel from the sound enclosure, easy once that is off (2 screws at the top of the side panel).

I would check the anti-diesel valve too, it screws into the carb bowl and has (1) wire coming out of it, should be easy to get to with the service panel off the enclosure, these can gum up too (and go bad).

 

I assume the fuel filter you changed was the one by the fuel valve?  There is another filter that screws in the fuel pump, it is well hidden..follow the fuel line into the genset.  I removed this one and just screwed in a barbed connector for the fuel line, it is way too much a pita to get at and the in-line filter does just fine.

craigswardmtb

I haven't checked the built in filter yet, just replaced the spin on fuel/water separator. I'll check that as well. I don't know why we need it with already having a spin on. I have the sound shields off but it will still be a pita getting at that flame arrestor and anti diesel valve. Curious Is your genny tucked as far port and aft as you can go like on my 360?

Black_Diamond

On my 342 it is tucked more forward on the port side, making the water pump a claustrophobic  encounter of the 3rd kind to get at.  I removed the filter at the fuel pump for the same reason: one in-line alreay and it is a bugger to get at.

craigswardmtb

So I pulled the fuel line, changed the filter and it was still hunting. I then lubed linkage, which did nothing, I proceeded to wedge myself between the aft wall, port engine and generator to start to remove the flame arrestor. This was one time I'm glad I'm a small guy. Once back their I noticed I was empty on the coolant reservoir. The level at the pressure cap was fine. I filled the tank to the appropriate level. I then removed the 4 bolts on the arrestor cover, and gained access to and removed the 3 screws securing the arrestor. It was pretty dirty so I took some carb cleaner to the arrestor. I decided to run the gen without the arrestor, and it was still hunting just as bad. I sprayed carb cleaner in the throat while running, on the linkages, and all over what I think was the anti diesel valve. I think the anti diesel valve was the culprit. As soon as I hit it with cleaner she started to purr. I continued to spray carb cleaner while running and she continued to purr like a kitten. I let it run for 30 minutes and there was no more hunting. I think she is fixed, until the next time.

Black_Diamond

Good deal! 

Just to forewarn you: you can get air in the closed coolant side and it will NOT bleed out on its own, especially thru the rad cap. - then you get over temp shut downs.  A few of us on here know the pain.  if it happens I can walk you thru how I fixed it without too much effort. 

craigswardmtb

Appreciate your help BD! Hopefully I'll have some time before I'm posting the next kohler problem.

Dream_Inn

craig, glad to hear it's fixed & thanks for posting the culprit!

BD, you sure hit a nail on the head for one of those issues I hate to remember.  I'll always keep a check on that fluid, cause all it takes is one jelly fish, and bang overheat...then as it cools, that hose better be on the bottom or the fluid doesn't go back in! :-t

TikiHut2

CONGRATS Craig! great find and thanks for posting the fruit of your effort. Resolution is some sweet stuff.

Bd and DI, I know you'd posted that coolant fill trick somewhere but maybe it'd be good to spread it around in a few threads so it can be easily found if someone was searching for it. Could I get you to remind me how that process went for the eventual day when my number comes up?

Black_Diamond

More than happy to share!  When I changed the thermostat and coolant:

*Filled at the pressure cap and the overflow bottle

*Bleed screw removed (located at the opposite end of the pressure cap on the heat exchanger, 1/8NPT plug fitting)

* I then used a 1/8"NPT barbed fitting, attached to a hand pump for liquids, installed the pressure cap and pulled a vacuum on the system with the pump....make sure you keep the over flow bottle full while doing this!  As you pull the vacuum the air will get sucked out and the fluid in.  Then just reinstall the pipe plug and check the reservoir level again.  This is the pump I used, $15 or so and it has plenty of other uses on-board (great to suck the oil out of the genny too!)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Fluid-transfer-pump/_/N-26df?itemIdentifier=94647&_requestid=139567

craigswardmtb

Well my success was short lived. The generator worked for about 20 minutes before she started surging again. The admiral was in the middle of cooking dinner so I let her finish with the stove. I then walked above deck to check water flow and raise the engine hatch and saw smoke coming from the water exhaust port and NO water. Doh! I shut her down and fired up the grille to finish dinner. I haven't checked yet but I'm thinking I sucked up some seaweed, it's everywhere in the watch hill harbor. Hopefully that new impeller isn't wasted. I think I'm going to have to remove the carb and give it a real good cleaning. Any hints/advice on removing and cleaning? The kohler blues continues...

Black_Diamond

Been there my friend! Besides the water pump impeller...here are a few things to check based on my history:
1. Anti-diesel valve: remive to clean. It unscrews from the carb bowl and has (1) wire attached to it.
2. Fuelpump: it is electric..check the electrical connector, mine was poorly made and would work on/off resulting in poor flow to the carb. I hard spliced mine.
3. Try leaving the service door off completely and run.

Good luck.

craigswardmtb

Thanks BD. I will report back once I am able to get some more time to work on it. I have the whole enclosure off at this point. I had a funny feeling I would be working on it again soon so didn't put it back on. That enclosure doesn't muffle the noise much IMO so not sure why it's even on there.

Black_Diamond

I agree the enclosure does little either. In my case I think ot was restricting airflow, causing erratic behaviour. I just put on 30+ hours on mine over the weekend, which is about 30x I've ever managed since new. Running like a champ now. Good luck.

rinker312

In the past I have had the surging problem.  I loosened up the electric choke, and adjusted it until the surge went away.  I had to do this a bunch of times as it kept coming back.  Sucks because you have to take top of the enclosure off to get to it.  This year I adjusted it in the beginning of the season, and I have been running it like crazy because our marina is still out of power from a tornado, and it has been running like a champ.  Good Luck.

craigswardmtb

My choke appears to not surge and closes once the genny is started and warm. It doesn't jockey open and closed like the throttle does. I can hold the throttle and it runs fine. As soon as I move my hand it starts surging again and opening and closing. So not sure if adjusting the choke would help? Now if I could adjust the throttle that would help. Curious we're these the symptoms of your surging as well. I noticed a screw between the throttle and choke linkage is that what you adjusted.

rinker312

your symptoms sound like mine.  maybe it wasn't the choke I was adjusting.  Can you see the picture below?  See the arrow I put in the picture.  That round thing is what I loosened and then turned and adjusted until I got it running the way I wanted.  I assumed it was the electric choke, because it reminded me of the electric choke adjustment I had seen on some vehicles in the past.  I would give it a shot, can't hurt, and it is easy to try, just two set screws hold it in place.

Black_Diamond

That is the choke. You can get overhaul kits for these too.

craigswardmtb

I replaced the inline fuel filter which was varnished, and cleaned the electrodes on the electronic choke which were pretty dirty. It pulsated on startup then ran perfect for 2 hours with and without load. We shall see. I may remove and clean the anti diesel valve just to be safe.

Jarodjay

I went to the "wayback file" to see if I could find some help on here. I have read through this thread about "surging" and "searching". Please watch this short video. Is this what is referred to as surging/searching? Or is this how a generator is supposed to run (note: not under any load). Thank you for your help.

Jarodjay

Aqua_Aura

All I see is a picture not a video. Looks like you are wondering about the water out the generator exhaust? It won't be a steady stream it just kinda pushes some out every couple of seconds. 

Jarodjay

I was trying to post a video of the exhaust/water discharge. I can't seem to post a video. 
the water has a pulsating outflow. I am wondering/asking if that is normal. Thanks again.

Liberty44140

Probably normal. I’ve heard folks compare the water output on the 5e from most rinkers comparable to drunk puking. Big pour, short delay, then big pour… that’s how both my 310 and my 342 were 

Aqua_Aura

Yep @Liberty44140 has it right 🤣

YYZRC

How come we can only select one emotion? I agree, like, awesome and LOL @Liberty44140 ‘s post.