ron hill signature 'pleasure five'

212rowboat

19p 14.125" diameter...

Impressive build, blades thinner than any other prop I've owned, cupping dramatic, progressive pitch obvious, viewing from the exhaust side, the leading edge of the blade is overlapped by the trailing edge of the adjacent blade.. square hubbed..

Speed GPS, shop tach.

212 captiva, 2005, 4.3lx, alpha one 1.84:1 (i thought it was a 1.62:1 prior, but no, I counted.. :-) ) ... Around 4k#'s with loaded gear, full tank, but just me on board.. all #270 of me... :-)

Down and dirty numbers:

Speed at idle (650~700rpm) 4 mph
Lowest plane: 2650rpm, 16~17mph, if I drop that fifty and to low 16, it slowly falls.
Best cruising speed: 2900~3000rpm @ 26~28mph sits on plane like it's nailed to it.
Top speed: 4650rpm @ 43.7mph...

Temp 82*, humidity around 95%, flat surface calm winds... I waited for the right day...

I haven't ran my numbers through a calculator yet to see if they're off... this is what the gadgets told me.

Impressions:

The 'hole' is missing, or didn't show itself during my test run.. the smart tabs I'm sure play into it.. within a boat length the boat is on plane, but with a strange attribute.. it feels like turbo lag in a poorly tuned boosted car, a second of nuthin, then it grabs and goes quickly, but very smoothly... It's not violent like I was told to expect.

Low speed below plane, handling is a dream and I'll not let go of this prop because of this.. the boat is on rails.. it's on rails on plane, and a touch of the trim on hard turns there is no loss of grip at all.. I went to the inlet and played on the tides, running plane and below on beam seas, following seas, and headlong into the current... These conditions is what made me consider the prop, and it didn't disappoint in this regard at all.. it sticks..

Reverse wasn't a problem, at all.. a matter of fact, it bit hard and fast, without slip I'm accustomed to with the turbo22p.. again, handling superb..

The prop will gladly tell you where it wants to be trimmed.. I'm guessing that has to do with low slip, the diameter and volume of water it's displacing, and balance.. it's easier to find the right trim, and when you do it launches a noticeable (both GPS and levis dyno) mph or three...

The water is cut just behind the helm.. the bow lifts readily due to the rake.. the stern is on blocks, it feels like, riding a couple inches higher than the previous 22p precision turbo three blade... Trim is altered but easy to figure.. at lower speeds it sits deeper than the other prop, but at wot is was close if not the same as the other prop.

What I don't like:

I didn't nail 4800rpms,.the top of the range... The added blade and unique geometry made guessing what pitch I needed more of a roulette than I anticipated.. I didn't even knock on the door of 4800.. I'm guessing swinging a wheel this big and heavy has bearing on that.. either I need a pitch less, or about a quarter inch less diameter.

The speed indicates a really low slip at wot... I haven't calculated it yet, but it is really low.. like, below or at five, low.. the speed, though, is akin to a straight pitched 19p, not a progressive pitched 19p, which should act like a 20~20.5p at wot or nearing the top of the cams range.. that tells me there is, in fact, slippage that I'll never be able to get a grip on, no pun intended... It also tells me that hitting something is going to hurt, maybe the drive instead of just the hub... Synchronized balance and disruption, all that jazz...

I'll be curious to see how this thing behaves with a crew on board... It's just a hunch, but I'm betting it isn't going to drop too much, or at least as much as my other prop does/did..

I'm mobile right now... I'll come back and edit, address, and fix this post later, as well as possibly, if there is any interest, combine my notes and compare all the props I've ran on this rig.

Sorry for the wall of text, folks, I just noticed there are absolutely zero in-depth reports on this prop anywhere on the web, bit there are plenty of conflicting notions on how it works..

I'll end this by saying: this thing would be a monstor with a small block... Even with a small block and 21p... Furthermore, I'm thinking I need a tune up.. I'm thinking maybe a tune would get me that 4800rpm and 46~47mph..


Edited.. ran the prop calculator.. fixed mistyped top speed .. 43.7 @ 4650 through 1.84 gear is just under 4% slip, or, the progressive pitch is a bit above 20p and I'm getting 8% or so slip.

floater212

thanks for the test report.... I had a 21" high five that felt perfect but as you stated when I get my new signature I should think more to the 19", but still you can't beat the five blade.... but then you can't explain it either, it just does it very well!

212rowboat

The signature isn't vented like the h5, and the diameter is right at an inch larger.. that makes a huge difference.. the h5 will turn faster and slip more due to the diameter, whereas the signature will grip more and make the engine work harder for the same revs.. 

I think the h5 may be better for my purposes.. if you're running an eight cylinder, I think the signature would be better.. 

212rowboat

guys, I got a lot of hours on the boat this weekend...

low down idle handling with this prop is amazing.. every revolution bites firmly and it is ridiculously predictable...  I brought her around and planted her at several docks, to include my home dock a few times, with greater ease and control than ever before... the dang thing drifted broadside and softly kissed the fenders...

i could never do that with the other props i've tried- and depending on tides, a few of those are tricky...  I was outside the channel in one instance, where the docks and ramp are, watching others struggle with the wind and current... I held others back behind me in the process, in effort to allow the passage to clear ( I don't think people 'think' about that until it's too late, but I got nods from those fellers when they 'do' realize and after observing a few seconds before committing) ... when it was my turn, every eye is on me... took her right up through the facing current, tipped her full lock left, popping the throttle just a touch as she passed starboard beam to the current, waited at idle until the current was pushing at the stern, touched reverse to bring her to a halt, and literally reached over and put my hand on a pier.  I'm telling you guys, that thing at idle speed handles freakin' amazingly.  I was commented to by just about every 'captain' about 'how to do that'... I wish I had an answer, because i'm quiet amazed too...

passing back through the inlet at full rip, there was zero losing of grip as I rode the waves and tipped over the other side... there was none with the other prop before I removed the hydrofoil 'whale tail' from the drive, but that is simply because the whale tail was exerting enormous force on the outdrive, which was anchoring the hull under the surface... When I installed smart tabs I removed the foil (as per recommendations)... after removing the foil, the prop would ventilate hard core, and I'd have to flutter the throttle to get bite back as soon as possible.. I freakin' hated that feeling- and this is why I went shopping for a four or five blade to begin with.. I can't confirm this, but I will suggest the Hill Signature better than the Merc H5 for this purpose, because the diameter id greater, and the blades wider.  If it ever lost grip at all, I didn't feel it...

I found myself behind about a 60' Hatteras coming back in... He was running about 30ish, and I followed him through the maze of channels back to the ICW.. They are dredging in one particularly narrow area, and had moved the markers even closer together than they usually are.  It's amazing how small crafts get out of the way of a rig like the one I was following, so it was useful to do so... Anything below 3200~3400rpm on the turbo-I 22p prop I pulled meant slowly falling off plane and just shy of 30mph- which meant I would have had to alter throttle the entire trip in behind that Hatteras, but not with the Signature... I set her at about 2900~3000rpm and held a bit over 25ish, and would close the gap back to a safe following distance every three or four minutes instead.

My home channel splits off the ICW at the Emerald Isle Bridge- the Hatteras took that direction and I broke left, and launched his considerable wake in the process... I've never felt as in control, with the boat biting solidly.. A mid plane speed approach into the tiny and narrow (read: shallow) channel to the ramp/docks, all I did was touch the trim and it bit hard without any hesitation and zero ventilation...

My biggest concern when switching to this prop was reverse, and based off of reports w/ the H5... this prop doesn't suffer at all from reverse slip.  My guess is that has ALL to do with diameter and lade width.

long and winded, yup... sorry about that, fellers... like I said, there are zero real world consumer reports about this prop on the interwebby as of this posting, which means someone somewhere may appreciate it... and, it will bring them to Rinker, so they can see what they're missing!

floater212

great report. the signatures sounds the way to go from now on! I need hole shot and bite for skiing and wake board and knee boarding. now it's just which one??? 19" or 21" ?

212rowboat

Running that small block, I'd def do the 21p, and if it is too much it will be a 'barely' too much, and nothing a good drill bit, a steady hand, and ill intent toward a piece of artwork can't fix...  I'd reckon some small vents would take the load off the engine, in other words.  :-) 

MarkB

Ok I admit I didn't read through everything above, but did you measure your peak fuel economy. 

212rowboat

No.. I didn't.. but I'm holding plane with nose slightly elevated at 2900 rpm with absolute ease, and with water cutting under the helm... It's said that 5* elevation with as Mich boat out of the water is optimum economy cruise.. before, that was around 3500rpm and not as solidly on plane... I'm guessing a huge improvement will soon be apparent.. at fill up, in other words.. 

Michael T

DA, there will even be more improvement in HP and MPG when your weather changes from 95% humidity and even slightly lower temps both of which cut HP/MPG. MT

212rowboat

thank you MT... yup.. those non-computer controlled induction critters certainly cut into economy, no?  speaking of which....... my carb is a mess I'm embarrassed to admit..  I pulled the hat, and was stricken with that lacquer odor like a wet fish slapped across my face.. I've never rebuilt it and to my knowledge, it's never even been cleaned...

I'm going to go ahead and full tune this thing... rotor and button, wires and plugs, filters and rebuilt carb... problem: it has been YEARS since I've worked on a full size carb... small engines, all the time.. I've forgotten too much, and would rather let someone else do the dirty.... $240 for a new/rebuilt......... or...... do I just go ahead and pull the trigger on a 4bbl intake and carb? rocker rollers and all the simple stuff?

Black_Diamond

If all you are doing is pulling the bowls, floats, needles, etc. it no different from a small carb..trick is always resetting everything right.  I bet you could pull, disassemble, replace the floats/gaskets and clean in a few hours.  A few cans of carb cleaner and good to go.  But it's way more fun to pop on an intake /carb The old Carter carbs were great due to the bowls being on the sides, the Holley carbs would starve/flood in 4wd jeep/trucks when on a big incline, although way bigger than any boat should see...I hope.   

Michael T

DA, (as you already know) your 4.3LX is a great engine. It is not only almost perfectly balanced because of the inherent balanced nature of a V6 but Merc also stepped-up and put a tuned harmonic balancer in those engines making them crazy well balanced. If a 4.3LX has been looked after it will pull hard forever - while SIPPING gas. IMO the 4.3 LX, 6.2 Mag and 8.2 Mag are the three signature engines that Merc makes. DA at one point you were talking of swapping engines (IF I remember correctly) IF you still are I'd just re-build the present carb. If you are going to keep your 4.3LX  (a good sounding idea to me) I'd be tempted to look at another carb or look at re-jetting and polishing the present one. There are so many options available which would be fun ways to jack that carb up. As always pictures are nice! MT

212rowboat

well I can **** up a rebuild kit and get to it... Looks like a storm is bearing down on us for the weekend, anyway.. 

I was thinking of dumping the merc carb and picking up a rocky.. I'm also thinking about ducting the hat to the little exterior cubby and using a speaker grill to cover it, with a cone filter in the box... I wonder how closely the uscg cares about flame arrestors?  This would do the same thing, but just allow better and cooler breathing.. 

The merc carb is worth a few dollars, I've noticed, huh? Kinda crazy... The Rocky breathes at about 475cfm which is pretty hardy for a 2bbl, and it is also a marine rated carb with the j spout and grooved-to-intake channel... The gas lines appear to work as well... Hmmm.. rebuild the merc and sell it to pay for the Rocky or just rebuild the merc? 

I'll be rotor and dizzy cappin, wires and plugs and filters et al all the same... 

MT, in actuality I'm happy with the 4.3 for my purposes... It's easy to forget that, in honesty, because it's in my nature to build build build... Maybe I ought to turn my attention to a leaf blower instead... It would be nice to.sit in one place and leaf blow the entire drive and yard, and likely hella more interesting than messing with something that works, no? 

floater212

as for extra cooling, I have a cubby on the engine side of the walkthrough which I added a louvered 4" house round vent inside at the back. the difference is amazing, cooler engine compartment while driving and when it's time to ski, open the compartment for the jackets and nowhere near as hot as before, and the motor runs smoother now too!

Michael T

F212, you are 100% on with that modification. Very few marine gasoline engines get enough air period, yet alone cool air. IMO most engines lose 5% of their rated HP due to ingestion of too little air and even worse air that is too warm (actually hot) and humid. Providing breathing room is IMO a great idea. DA does raise a good point though. My friends and I never considered what the CG rules on flame arrest might be. That said, we usually had the "breathing holes" set-up in the gunnles or off to the side somewhere where a flaming back fire would not enter the cockpit directly. Good cautionary note though. MT

Black_Diamond

Drew: technically if the C.G. finds you in non-compliance, like a missing flame arrestor, it is a 'towable offense' - in other words they help you right back to shore and probably a nice fine too.  Then there is just the plain safety side.

As for the leafblower...go for it!  lol  I just bought a nice Stihl backpack blower..should have bought it years ago..but I digress