Valve Seat Failure.... Ugh
pvantienen
Member Posts: 19 ✭
So, only had the boat for a few weeks when the engine shut down and locked up. Finally had the mechanic take a look. Worst news, a total rebuild. It seems a valve seat failed, valve didn't close all the way, piston smashed the valve, bent it etc. Cause all kinds of issues.
Well, I have the engine rebuilt now, running great. Question of the day is: Should that be covered by insurance??
Policy states: "Not covered: 3. caused by or resulting from any of the following defects or conditions: faulty design,
faulty workmanship, the installation or use of improper or defective materials, wear
and tear, gradual deterioration, or corrosion."
The boat is a 1997 Rinker Captiva 232. My understanding there was around 280 hours on it. Had my mechanic inspect before I bought it, said the engine appeared to be in great shape. (The hour meter was broken and a new one installed when I bought it, doesn't help much.)
Thoughts?
Comments
I have emailed them, they initially replied with the wear and tear comment, but my mechanic doesn't believe it's a simple wear and tear issue. Depends on their interpretation I guess.
It'll be hard to win a claim on an engine part failure for a 17y/o motor unless it was a recall issue or a well known defect. I feel your pain and there's probably no harm in trying as long as it doesn't cause an extension of the pain.
Hope for the best but know when to cut your losses. Attorneys and insurance companies have a vampire like way of sucking the fun out of life. Glad it's running great. Mike
Stand j by for probable useless information.... :-)
Valve inferance how? Valve seats aren't to blame..
Here is the key: get a statement on the condition of the timing chain... If it is oe, hang it up.... The timing chain breaks, the valve events go screwby, WHACK, piston meets valve... If a new chain, or chain is intact, you've got a case if your mech delves deep to help you out, and here is why:
The only way that happens otherwise is a broken valve spring, a broken rocker, or a broken push rod..
Springs: follow a wash basin failure rate, meaning there is a silly high spike in failures early, rarely in the middle, and then again in the end... Have mechanic pull good springs and test them... If they are within specs and uniform, you got a bad one and have an arguement..
Rocker: stamped item, susceptible to fatigue over time, but being stamped and not mechanical of themselves, the basin failure rate applies... Have mech do same thing and compare them to others if this was failure point...
Push rods: same basin failure rate.. same fatigue as rockers.. same testing... I've never heard of a push rod breaking on an unmodified engine without catastrophic event...
Catastrophic event: something dislodged and interfered with valve spring, retaining cap, push rod, and allowed the valve to drop into cylinder.. there will be evidence on what that was if you look close enough..
Wear items: not enough oil to system can accelerate fatigue, and can cause independent catastrophic failure... sloppy timing chain can skip teeth/timing and allow mechanical inference... You'd notice terrible running prior to that, though...
Send your mech a file, and have him sharpen his pencil... Figure out precisely how the happenstance came to be... If it was one of the three I mentioned, and it just about has to be, compare to like items remaining intact, and document document document... A solid report written with precise terms and measurements can help you prove the failure was not consistent with expected wear, but instead due to fault in manufacturing practice, even if there is no history or prior reporting of such...
Fantastic advice guys, much appreciated! I have contacted the insurance company. They are going to have an adjuster get in touch with me.
Let the games begin. :-)
Best of luck on the claim. Let us know what happens.
RY I got in on tue. I head over to Alexandria on fri afternoon and sat. Drop me a pm and lets grab a beer.
some common causes:
heat- prolonged type from running an engine hard for an extended period, especially WOT where the engine is delivering all the fuel it can, but it's still not enough and the engine runs lean (which is hotter than rich, and which leads to predetonation; another cause)
heat- sudden spike; such as when water stops circulating from reason varying from a bad circulation pump, to a blockage, or from blown head gaskets or floating cylinder heads under extreme pressure.
predetonation: when the air:fuel load ignites prior to precisely timed spark being applied... it usually explodes as opposed to rapidly burns, when you actually want a rapid burn... a burn is what the engine was designed for, whereas an explosion causes extremely hot and high pressures, which drive the valve hard into the seat, deteriorating it a bit every time- which leads up to failure.
marinized engines are going to have 'hard' seats as opposed to performance engines (built for a few runs before being scrapped and built anew)... what that means is a longer lasting valve seat so long as dryer fuels aren't used... butane is considered a dry fuel, and is one of the principle components in winter blends and found in high levels in non-rec fuel such as anything with ethanol in it... every stroke of magic cause microscopic chunks of seat that have been ground, welded, pressed, into dust which is passed through the exhaust and 'see me no more'... over an appreciable amount of time, the seats lose their pretty little seating angles, and then it stops seating perfectly, and then it picks up pace and stops sealing altogether, which means you lose compression and the cylinder stops firing, ultimately, as it can't build compression.
high quality engine builds that aren't produced en mass and THEN 'tweaked' for performance won't have the issues finer produced engines have... if the valve geometry is off in a cheaper build, folks will just grind the valve down- grinding the valve heats it to where it can lose it's temper to a degree, takes that particular valve out of tolerances with other valves, and leaves behind microscopic scratches on teh valve which allow heat to penetrate... better built engines will, instead, use precision valves and dial in the geometry through the push rods and or rocker assembly timing.
valve guides keep things moving smoothly, and are a wear item folks forget about until it's too late- they keep a sheen of oil on the valve stem w/o allowing too much past, which keeps the valve freely floating through the heads... a sticking valve can remain open enough to cause a loss of compression as well as blow through, which usually takes out the valve seat and the valve guide... valve guides are cheap, and take a couple hours only to replace- you can do it on a slow day adrift with minimal tools, and you should do it every 500hours or so... very cheap insurance..
soryy, dude.... you asked.
It's more about load on engine than rpms.. for instance, an engine meeting demand in terms of air:fuel ratio comfortably and running 4800rpms isn't working near as hard as an engine running 4200rpms and wide open...
If you want to test your engine for load, you'll have to get a vacuum gauge... But a quick trick: starting out a voyage, and after you're on plane, momentarily and for no more than a thirty second window, go to wide open throttle.... If you hit the rev limiter, you're in no danger of overloading your engine.... But let's say your optimum wot is 4800, and you know you can hit it dry and unburdened (proper prop)... If you pop the throttle for thirty seconds and only creep up on 4500rpm, you're loading the engine too much... If you can hot and hold 4krpm easily before it starts creeping, then that is likely your top rpm to attempt to hit while you're carrying that burden... Attempting to go higher is overloading the engine, and a place where it leans out and gets really hot...
Did I do a halfway decent job of explaining that?
you did, I appreciate the info. Do you happen to be in the Metro Detoit area?
What additives do you recommend for gas (ethanol) and oil (prevent valve sticking) ?
Startron for fuel, so far as I'm concerned there is none better... Oil, what maker recommends... Nah, I'm down south but in Detroit region every Christmas...
x
PC BYC, Holland, MI