Water in oil - what would your process be

craigswardmtb

Rinker team - This has not happened to me, but in the event some day I pull the dipstick and see milky oil I wanted to get a "what would you do" thread going.  So what would your first steps be to one get the nasty water out of the engine?  Typically how long can the water be in there before you are really screwed?  What to begin with for diagnosis (compression test, leak down, etc)?  Where would you look first for signs of foul (oil cooler, risers, etc)?  What are some signs this type of failure may be coming?  Has this happened to anyone and what was ultimately you're culprit leading up to failure?  I know it can be a pretty broad topic, but thought it might be useful as a repository of information from others experiences with this nightmarish issue.

Everyone knock on wood as they post.

212rowboat

water (coolant) and oil ought not cross paths... the most common mechanical failure for this to happen is a blown gasket between the intake manifold and the heads, where the passages are... water floods the valley and pours into the crankcase. 

cracked block can do it...

cracked heads or intake manifold can do it...

craigswardmtb

What about riser or elbow gaskets?  Or does it have to be at the manifold.

212rowboat

the oil is going to reside in the crank case, the valve covers, and the lifter valley- if you're equipped with an oil cooler, it lives there too, obviously... other than that, it doesn't move around a whole lot...

coolant (water) is in many places.. it crosses near oil most apparently in the intake manifold/block/heads union... 

if you pull the dipstick one day and see oil, you've most likely, and in descending order-

blown head gaskets; most often due to heat, intensive job to repair because you've got to get the decks squared at a machine shop.

cracked an intake manifold; most often due to heat, but can also be because too much elbow grease on bolts surrounding the water passages- pay attention to torque specs! (ask me how I know)... not a terrible job to do, but the manifold will need replacing.

cracked block; frozen, overheated, manufacturing flaw.  about as intensive a repair as you can undertake.

Black_Diamond

The water in oil question is big in industrial machinery too, especially larger speed reducers, turbo equipment, etc.  Usually that is from environmental issues not a water cooling system (but it can happen).  Here's the acceptable water in oil limit anyone will give you: zero.  Trace amounts will evaporate at operating conditions of course, but beyond that, nothing. 

MarkB

If I saw water in my oil, I think I would start crying. Once I got over that, I think I would drink a lot.  Once I got over that, I would speak to my mechanic and pull out my credit card. That does not sound like a good thing at all.

Dream_Inn

Well, on my first boat I had the 'water in oil' issue. I was pretty new to boating at that time (I knew a lot about engines though, rebuilding my first at age 13) and decided I did not have the resources to do it myself. But I had a trailer, so I took it to someone recommended. He told me for the cost to tear apart to diagnose (we both had our ideas), I'd be better off just replacing the engine. That is exactly what I did. I learned a lot of lessons with that first boat, going thru two engines. If I only had a forum like this 15 years ago! My first thought with water in oil would be to see if there was water in the cylinders (did it lock up). If so, get some mystery oil in there to keep it from siezing. If the boat is at least a few years old, pull apart the risers/manifolds to see if water came from there. If cylinders were ok, then go to drew's method. Head gasket's a good culprit.

The Main Exchange

I am going through this right now. We were out Memorial weekend ingested some kelp / seaweed and the engine ran hot. Shut down cleared out the sea strainer engine would not start – hydra locked! Sea water in oil etc… So towed in (5Hrs) and had the boat hauled out. Engine removed and torn down for failure mode investigation. Head gasket blown between #5 & #7 cylinders, not across a water passage. Source of sea water – corroded exhaust manifold, when the engine was shut off water drained in the cylinder. So 4 weeks later and now a legal dispute starting with Safeco Insurance company, we can’t get a Volvo reman 8.1 long block due to the line shut down due to oil pressure problems, allegedly. So I take the engine home tear down to a block and had the following done; bored 20 over new pistons, crank and cam polished, new cam, main and rod bearings. Block light deck, heads reconditioned put back together.

Engine back in boat fired up runs great. 2 hrs into sea trial loses oil pressure and starts knocking! WOW. Engine out torn down again, found to have ‘bad’ rod bearings, could be connected to this Volvo oil pressure issue? Who knows.

Now I am rebuilding the engine this weekend with new crank, rods, oil pump etc… Got a bearing batch from 2013 so we are looking good, have about 1.5 -2 thou clearance on the mains. Engine going back in the boat on Monday, fingers crossed!!  

So how’s that for a story! My back ground, Engineering Manager for Mercury Marine.

MarkB

Richard how much for all that rebuilding vs buying a merc engine with employee discount? 

craigswardmtb

Wow what a story Richard.  I can't even imagine the amount of sleepless nights you have had.  What is almost more surprising is you are an engineering manager for Mercury yet you went Volvo's.  Wow!  Thanks for sharing.

The Main Exchange

Mark, I have a Volvo in our 280 with a new OceanX outdrive. I left Mercury Marine and the Volvo long block was $5500 but no availability. I considered a Merc long block but they were more expensive and the cam is different. All in all I'm way less then a Volvo long block. If I was at Merc I would swop it over to Bravo 3 and Merc 8.1 DTS!! 

The Main Exchange

I wanted Merc but the Rinker we found out here had a Volvo.

youstolemybeer

All this talk of having to rebuild the engine reminds me of a boat I used to own. I went to check the oil and found the dreaded milk shake oil. This was in the spring time and the water was cool to wow that's cold.  I did a compression check and all 4 cyl were 150 psi. mmmm ok I have good compression.  Started the engine, sprayed carb clearner around the intake. No change in rpm Let the engine run for an hour (what the heck if its going to blow let it blow up at the dock)  I noticed that the temp gauge never moved the whole time the engine was running. Grounded the temp sensor wire at the engine, yep gauge works. Took the thermostat out and found a rock had wedged itself in the t-stat preventing it from closing. Popped the rock out and reinstalled,  Started the engine and with in 15 minutes the oil was clear and the temp gauge was up to 160. Im presuming that the cool water the boat was in was over cooling the engine therefore not getting the oil up to temp to burn off any condensation.

212rowboat

I hear ya Mr. Beer theft.. :-) 

I should say this: it only takes a cup or so of water to make a oil shake, and actually maybe half a cup.. as ugly as it sounds, that can be burned out.. significant water, as in little wads of separated oil and yellowish brown wads is another story.. I wouldn't run that.. 

TikiHut2

Richards story would've broken my boating habit. Good gawd son what a tale.

...as for our beer victim... I cant believe you'd run it with good compression and water in the oil. Wow. That was a close one.

The Main Exchange

Well the good news, the engine is built and ready to be installed Monday! Fingers crossed we will be cruising the San Juans next week.

The Main Exchange

Well good news we have approx. 10 hrs on the rebuilt engine and all is well!! Thank goodness we can now go on vacation. 

Lifes Good

yeah!

raybo3

Good news best of luck......

Dream_Inn

That's gottta be a fantastic feeling!  Good for you and enjoy your trip!!

The Main Exchange

Thank you everyone, we are very relived.

Austin

I'm having to also replace my long block, $6600 volov penta. Water in oil was pretty bad. Winter temps were 5 degree's here in medford oregon.

Austin

Hopefully mine will be done aug 5th

The Main Exchange

Austin, Do you have an 8.1 VP?

Austin

Volvo Penta 8.1 GI-H

The Main Exchange

Did you manage to locate a long block from Volvo?

Austin

Yes, 4 seasons marine in medford, they ordered it from volvo