new experience... for me, anyway..
212rowboat
Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've never spun a bearing before... Engines I've built, rebuilt, or owned from new have never ever done that... I've either done that, or busted a wrist pin- that I have done before (it was defective out of the box on a new engine and machine shop didn't catch it, boy was I tweaked) but it sounded nothing like this...
I was passing through a narrow channel under a bridge, and throttled back to absorb a passing boats wake (he broke courtesy by ploughing through even though I was leading another boater fifty feet behind me and closer to the bridge- he actually laid into the throttle instead of fading back and letting traffic through) ... So, I throttled back, maybe to 1500rpm or so, absorbed his wake, and dove back into the throttle as soon as it passed- back to about 3.5k or so... CLACK... CLACK CLACK CLACK...
I have my stern tower light mounted above the engine on the sundeck.. my first thoughtwas that thing had fallen... After passing through channel at 1k rpm and veering out of the way of traffic coming up on my stern, I reached back and opened the cover to see... Nope...
Weird... Edged into throttle, came up on plane around 2800rpm and CLACK CLACK.CLACK, but this time the engine reduced power of its own accord before I could respond...
Cutting to chase, got her on trailer, got her home, got her rinsed inside and out... Checked oil- A okay.. I'll be doing a compression check in the next couple days, and then likely pulling the engine...
Don't feel bad... That isn't the point to this post... My engine mounts are shot, I've known that for a couple months, now, and I'm wondering just how out of alignment I've been running her... Bellows are original (but don't leak), so I needed to do that too, and I've always felt she was underpowered... Now, I get to fix that... And, the admirals first comment was "don't tell me how much, I just want to be back on the dang water by the end of the month"... Guys, that's a license, no?
I'm thinking a performance alpha drive that can handle 400 ponies, and a stroker pumping about 350... Whatchall think? I'm gonna stick with carb... I'd rather do mpi, obviously, but I don't want to argue with harnesses, computers, ignitions, wiring, injectors, ect every night for the next couple weeks to meet my deadline... My boat is small and light, and fuel economy really isn't a concern..
Comments
The B-III can handle that power too.
PC BYC, Holland, MI
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Good thing that there's more talk about drives going on than engines, because, it isn't my engine...
That dang 4.3 just won't die... Compression is freakin impressive and uniform within 4psi wet and dry.. it held solid for a minute on each cylinder, and only one let lose quicker than that, and note that I didn't try to hold it any longer... It bled about 15psi by the end, but that could be that I didn't catch tdc perfectly or have a bit of a valve seat issue, but even so- it purrs like a kitten all the way up to 5k rpm w/o a knock or miss... I was revving and holding it without care if it flew apart, mind you, I wouldn't recommend that be done to a healthy engine... But, as it turns out, it is very healthy.. which tweaks the maddness out of me, because I've tracked down two 383 strokers in the past 24 hours that will remain with their current owners... I can't bring myself, no matter how disappointing it is in performance, to toss a healthy engine... there isn't even any significant blow by, and it is perfectly predictable on the vacuum gauge...
By the way... That amsoil in the crankcase still looks brand new, with just a hint of shade from carbon present... I'll stick with either that or kendell from now on..
Grrrrrr.... do you guys recall I spoke of purchasing a drive shower some time back? I never did... There was a glitch with their site when I hit 'complete order' and I didn't know if the order went through or not... Figured I'd get an email confirmation, but didn't.. Figured I'd wait a couple days to see if my cc showed the transaction, and it never did.. tried calling and no answer, and tried emailing with no response... Driveshowers.com let me down, so I figured it wasn't a necessity anyway, so I'd just wait...
Here is what I think has happened:
I was running the boat around 3200~3400rpm steady for about an hour, which is mucho longer than I usually do... I think a seal failed... I injested water into the system (this I know for fact, I just drained it) and I think it got really hot... In its heat, I think the raw water pump (inside lower unit) started hiccupping... I think the clank I heard (which sounded JUST like something metal hitting the drive belt area) was the circulation pump running dry... I never heard an alarm once.. when I came off plane momentarily to.absorb that wake, and then gunned it again I think I broke up the momentum/harmonics that thing was relying on to maintain its composure...
I did get it back on plane and to around 3k, and it was fine until I touched the trim.. when I trimmed up it clanked and power was lost (no alarm), but back to idle and then attempting throttle again was hit and miss... At idle, when I swung around to enter the small (but tricky due to currents) channel within 100' of the ramp it did it again... I just wanted to get my wife and infant home... I wouldn't have been doing this otherwise.. brought it to dock, unloaded them, left it idling while I went to back down truck... Jumped in boat dropped into gear and she argues for moment, almost like they will when you're pushing too much prop, as an example, but reamjns running... Actually powerloaded her for first time yesterday, and she wasn't argumentative...
I've been running my hands through the drained gear oil, had a magnet into the casing, and have seen very very little shavings and not a single chunk... A matter of fact, the majority of the shavings were wiped off the tip of the magnatized upper vent plug.. other than that, very little and had to be searched for...
The oil is about the consistency of 30w, and has solid green color to it.... It was absolutely tainted with water, but not terribly so...
I'm going to get a lower kit and pump, and set of seals, and simply clean up and refresh it... Gonna see what happens with just that... Also, gonna figure out why I didn't hear a single alarm... I certainly and obviously lost power, but there wasn't a buzz one...
I would have put a chunk of my retirement that I'd spun a bearing... That engine is good to go, though...
Oh... And I will have a drive shower... You can bank that, too...
And to think, I almost dropped a small fortune because of this... And still may... I found a turn key 5.7 "357" 375hp for $4k...
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If your engine mounts are shot as you mentioned, the coupler is right behind them on going bad too. Still your chance to pull the engine and then .... lol
PC BYC, Holland, MI
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http://www.driveshowers.com/
Why doesn't Mercury or other OEM manufacturers offer drive showers as a factory option?
2000 180 Bowrider, 135hp 3.0L Merc, 2.00 Alpha One Gen 2 OD, 14.5 x 19P prop
Regular weekender, trailer stored indoors, Southern Ohio
This sounds like dejavu.
I'm betting it's a coupler failing, probably due to the mounts being bad. Terrible drive alignment can cause a host of mysterious sounds. As I read your saga it reminded me of the very same experience I had when my screwed up drive alignment eventually started to chow my coupler. It'd been a longish run, while at cruising speed the boat shuddered and lost power so I immediately powered down but it would slowly go back on plane until I tried to trim in/out.
I was told by "experts" that couplers either work or don't which is hogwash. Mine didn't strip the inner splined housing but instead started to spin in between the rubber and the outer housing. It'd hold if you were gentle because it was binding, forced together with such a poor alignment, change the trim and it'd release the bind slightly and it'd start to spin/shudder. There was no real excess rubber shreds or burnt smell either, I suspect because I caught it and stopped instantly.
Glad your motor is happy and I'm betting you'll have that coupler in as easily as an engine pull can be done. I found my OEM coupler on Ebay for $300 and my alignment tool for $30ish. As for the drive oil contamination, a bad alignment that's let go can cause havoc at every shaft/seal interaction not to mention u-joints. It still amazes me at how casual a proper O/D-engine alignment is with many boat mechs. They'd never expect a poor transmission or clutch alignment in their truck to tolerate an improper union but the O/D shaft is seemingly fair game to a simple bolt up if the alignment tool can be driven in with a hammer.....or simply ignored. (For the record you should be able to insert/withdraw the tool at 90* crank intervals with 2 fingers.....no exceptions)
I finally put mine back in the water 3 days ago after doing my coupler with a proper alignment and the boat has NEVER run so smooth. All the mysterious mechanical sounds at the O/D have disappeared and she was noticeably quieter at cruising speed. Even the Admiral noticed the difference.
We'll be watching for a diagnosis. Mike
Drive shower.......hummmm I do not have them nor do I know anything about them. So here are my thoughts. I would assume they are stainless steel??? More metals in the water also marine growth. I would assume that the will foul "up" like any other metal in water. Just my thought but it seems to be more work and maintenance. I would think unless your running for hours and hours at high RPM's you would not really need them. Again just thinking out loud......
Raybo: the drive showers are SS. The guy at Allamericandriveservice.com was 110% on board with having the showers (he overhauled by B3 drives) and he does a lot with high HP and mods and says they are worth the money. The additional SS is not an issue (I was concerned about this but have had no problems in 3+ years). That said, they do get fouling on them and that's been my gripe: algae and zebra mussels around me. I painted them with anti foul after year one, but it does not stick to them well and it is really a PITA to get the paint IN the tubes. I still run with them and clean them in the off season.
I can easily run 3-4 hours at a crack on a trip by me.
PC BYC, Holland, MI
thanks, Tiki- yeah, the more and more I think about it, the more it's leaning that way.... it makes sense... and- the mounts are toast anyway, so the engine has to move one way or another if I'm going to make this rig right.....
www.driveshowers.com. No drilling.
Suggestion: run water thru it before you install. Mine had big burrs in the holes from poor machining and the water flowed poorly or in some holes did not flow at all. Small file and a dremel got it flowing good.
PC BYC, Holland, MI
Mike, thanx....I know I could have Googled it but I'd rather get the info from the experts :-).Is there an issue with Volvo Penta drives? Granted, cruisers are not high performance boats but keeping things cool is always a plus.
It's silly not to think that drive showers aren't effective.... Keeping things cooler is almost always better... as far as metal in the water or critters latching on, I pull my boat so I'm not much worried about that...
It is my gimbel bearings and ujoints... not a big deal at all... I will, however, install some new motor mounts while I'm doing all of this, as it ought not be a big deal. Or, as big as I thought..
Lesson learned is that the driveline of these things can make some funky sounds... I would have wagered a big sum that I had spun a bearing... it sounded just like that. turns out, I kinda did, just not in the motor.
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I put the drive shower from driveshowers.com on my Bravo 3 after reading about drives and oil degradation on this forum. I had to clean (CLR) the white chalk off my drive last spring, none since. It is piece of mind knowing that my drive is running cooler, as the Bravo 3 is an awesome drive and want to do everything possible to keep it running great for a long time. Easy install and worth every dollar IMO. Although, they should give us a discount when ordering, since we are promoting them on this forum as they give discounts on quantity. A friend of mine put one on his B3 after seeing mine, since he was getting the white powder on his Bravo 3 too.
Drew, glad it wasn't an engine main bearing. I am anal about strange noises that make you think the worst case scenario.
On another note Drew, I switched to the Amsoil synthetic engine oil that you recommended on previous posts and it is still crystal clear; again piece of mind.
PC BYC, Holland, MI
I know you had a bad bearing too but I was amazed at how different our B3 O/D sounded and even felt underway with a proper alignment. Looking back in my old posts I had referenced how much mechanical noise my drive made when I had it on the muffs rinsing it. As it turned out it was warning me. I started by replacing the gimbel bearing (which looked fine) but when the noise continued I just wasn't sure what it was....... it all starts with a pretty simple drive alignment that's set right.
If those are new motor mounts be sure to re-check that alignment next spring or 25hrs whichever is first. It's just too simple to avoid now.
Glad it went so well. Mike
PS I still have to wonder about that coupler based on your original comments and the condition of the mounts. A bad gimbel bearing won't account for a loss of power:
Boat Name: King Kong
"Boat + Water = Fun"
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