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Starter Testing

rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

I have been having suspicion of a start issue since I purchased 10 months ago, "slow"start, on a 5.7 350 MPI 2005 motor. I solved one problem replacing starter slave cylinder so that is ruled out. When you turn the key, sounds like the starter wants to turn, you hear an electrical buzz going on, almost like it is jambed. I also just up graded my battery, brand new today. I looked at the service manual and going through that process step by step.

First step I can tell you the result but the results in the printed has me confused. The first step should tell you if you have a wiring/ground issue, or if you have a problem with the starter/selonoid. I thought that a good approach, kind of start in the middle. Book says connect a meter up to the positive terminal on the selonoid and then the negative to bare metal on the starter itself. I connected to one of the nuts for the long bolts that holds the starter housing together. And then the book goes on to say turn the key on for a few seconds and the should me no more than 1/2 volts drop than when you tested the battery itself. CONFUSING! When I tested the battery itself, 13.6 volts. When I hooked the meter to the selonoid as described above, I had 13.6 also but without the key on. Why would there be voltage when the key was not on? Is that correct? Then when you hit the key it drops to as low as 12.5 (starter is not turning). So that is a 1 volt drop. If the starter is working properly, there would not be any more than a 1/2 volt drop as your cranking on the motor with it?

The book is saying that if the volts drop more than 1/2 volts with the key on, must be something in the wiring, which it does, but I likewise do not under stand getting the volts when the key was not on...anyone help with this test? Then I can move on to the next when  I understand better the results of this one! Is there a way to manually turn the starter like an automotive one? Can the gears get meshed? I did look at the grounds on back side of motor, all terminals clean and tight...

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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,560 mod
    edited November 2014
    Ras, I've read what you wrote twice.  I think what you are saying is that reading voltage at battery is 13.6.  Reading voltage using ground at starter is the same.  But, when you turn key it drops to 12.5.  This means you are having a 1.1V drop across that wiring, which is not good.  It does sound like wiring.  I would check those wires.  It is possible one is not tight and you are getting higher resistance there, causing voltage drop across it.  Also possible one of your larger wires is corroding inside.  Move it around and see how "stiff" it is.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    so if the starter were turning properly, when you hit the key, the current will still be within 1/2 volt? And with the key off and the meter hooked up the way I did I should get battery voltage? I read another similar method of testing but it said make sure the battery tested above 12V and then hit the switch and record the voltage drop at the battery, then do the same as above at the starter selonoid and record that drop and then compare those results for the difference. The Merc book says check at the battery with no load and then check at the starter under load and look for a drop, that does not make sense to me but that is what it's saying?- I did inspect the back side of the isolator switch- everything looked clean and tight. I dug down behind the motor to the engine ground-looked like three or four wires on that and all the connections looked like galvanized connectors or otherwise clean. I did put a wrench on that to make sure it was tight. The book also states if you have at least 9 1/2 when your hitting the key, the starter is getting enough juice for it to work...it's very confusing. I noticed also on the transom a panel of wires or like a bar...what's all them for??? This is my boating season!!!

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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not believe that the current has to stay within 1/2 volt when the starter is actually "working". I think that checking with the circuit turned on is just to determine if there is too much resistance which would prevent the starter from actually working as there would be too much resistance from that very significant draw. My money would be on the same slot as DIs and Rys - check the wires and battery connections. It seems like a bad connection. wire or ground. Fingers crossed. MT
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lord I do not want to pull that starter! It's 42 degrees here in cent Fl! Here is a thought I had...since I know my starter slave cylinder is working properly, as has been stated, resistance in wiring SEEMS to be the target, Unless there is an issue with the starter, If indeed the test I did and the resulting drop in voltage is correct and the issue. What if I pull the hot wire off the starter and I pull the wire from the battery switch and bypass the battery switch and go direct to the starter from the battery ( like a single battery set up), if that does not work do the same with the negative? That should confirm the positive and/or neg. connections and battery switch are good or not? Since I do have two batteries and it won't turn on either, I would think unlikely that ALL the battery cables are bad? I don't see any way to test that isolator switch, are they know to go bad?
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no, not really...plenty of places of shops to drop it off! I'm going to bypass the battery switch as I'm reading on line a very common problem....
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,560 mod
    Ras, I agree you can try a new set of wires and temporarily bypass the battery switch.  My bet is that it will start.  I've seen wires just go bad in time.  They start to feel stiff and 'crunchy' when you move them.  I've also been around street rods all my life and seen the same thing happen.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    as soon as it warms up...I read on another forum to take the common wire off the back of the battery switch and put on the post of the starting battery side bypassing the switch-if that does not work I will buy some new for plus and minus- if that does not work I would have to assume something in the starter or selonoid has to be the answer........will update!
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well,tried that same result. Pulled the plus off the bat switch and took it direct to the starter,bought a new neg cable at the auto parts and hooked that up to a bolt on the alternator,same result. Checked the power at the starter for both the slave cylinder when activated and plus on the selonoid-all battery voltage. So I have really bypassed everything in the starting system except for the selonoid wire which I checked. I'm afraid it's time to go diving for a starter as it looks like what ever is not working correctly, is in there. Unless for some reason the motor does not turn over which will be my last step before pulling that rascal out. Will watch for those that dared to go here before for the words of experience!
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And I tried to find the comment, one reason I was getting such a drop in voltage is I had the darn battery charger on....I'm thinking 13.6 V would be pretty high voltage! Thanks to who ever pointed that out...
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    JC290JC290 Member Posts: 706 ✭✭✭
    Ras if I'm reading everything right I would say starter is toast. Double check your ground wires as that is a common problem as others have said they do corrode enough to cause this. I know you said you hooked new ground to alternator but if motor ground is bad I don't think that will help
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    thanks JC- I did check the power/voltage drop after A, making sure my battery charger was off and 2, with the "new"wires attached and no longer had that big drop in voltage....I sure was hoping when I saw a comment on this that there was something I had missed....
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