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Underwater Light opinions
jme097
Member Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭
Ok guys, on my 258 Vista I installed (2) Seablaze 3's and they were great. Didn't any problems with them and they were great quality wise. I am going to do the same on my 280 EC but I just figured it was worth asking if anyone has installed anything other than Seablaze on their transoms and what they thought of them. And no I am not installing the Ocean LED's as they are way over priced for what you get. Anything would be appreciated!
Boat Name: Knot A Worry
2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3
2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3
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Go Steelers!!!
http://www.theliquidlite.com/
This is what it looks like. I also installed a color changing LED on my transom, and set it to cool blue to match the underwater light.
Boat Name: King Kong
"Boat + Water = Fun"
2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3
Hey jme097 Glad to give some data - tTo answer your question directly: Our 2016 EC 360 arrived with the Rinker factory installed Ocean LED Amphibian Pros (I think they were called Pro A-3s) They are blue LEDs. Rinker placed them on hull about 30" down and to the outside of each stern drive. They were certainly nice looking and brighter than any other brands of "small" light bars. What I really liked was their super low battery draw....and their "true" lumen count. Therefore, their Lumen per dollar and low power draw really added-up for me. As well, Rinker does a lot of research and usually tries to get the best value for their dollar, so when they chose Ocean LED that caught my attention.
Now to the second set of lights, Ocean Pro 8 Extreme Color Changing - The Admiral heard me mentioning to slip mates that I really liked the color changing lights and how cool it would be to have them. She said if we found a decent type at a decent price we could make them my Christmas present for 2014. We visit a lot of marinas so I began to ask anyone who would listen what underwater lights they had and to demonstrate them at night. As you guys all know - we love to show other guys our cool "toys". So I saw dozens of different LED systems in real time at night and listened carefully to their owners' likes and dislikes along with installation pros and cons. I also went on a bunch of forums and called a dozen or so underwater light manufacturers for specs. I really wanted the color changing and strobing effect. I liked that Ocean has a very strict lumen reporting policy and checks each LED for color prior to installation. The low power draw was essential for me as what's the point of having them if I'm afraid to leave them on at anchor or while cruising at night?
I hope I didn't come-off as an a**hole with a lot of money, who throws it around just to have something cool. I don't. We watch our money carefully. I really researched the underwater lights carefully. There are some amazing lights out there but many of them have to have a 1" or larger hole drilled through the transom. Also it wasn't easy to find a spot to go through the transom of our 360 at the correct water level (8" - 10" below the "normal" water level )as there were trim tabs on each side and twin B3s while on the inside of the transom there is a lot of equipment mounted all over the place on the inside transom wall! The fact that I only needed to drill a 1/2 hole through the transom and the rest of the installation was so easy sold me an the Ocean brand. So - I kept monitoring web sites Amazon etc. for a deal. I missed one pair for a discount but found another pair at a great price. I agree, they still weren't cheap but I wanted certain features and that's just what they cost.
If I could offer one GOOD tip to anyone installing the underwater light bars it would be: rather than install two big light bars - one on the outside of each out drive - I'd drop down a size and install three smaller light bars with one on each side of the out drives and one in the middle between them, as this gives much better coverage. In my case the pro 8 extreme color changing light bars were the smallest size in the Ocean LED line with those features. I would have preferred to buy three of them but felt the cost was too high at the time for us. BUT..... if I ever did an upgrade I'd add one between the drives as the stern drives do block some of the light from just the two outside LED banks.......maybe this Christmas?
Anyway, apologies for the lengthy post but I did want to be thorough and I probably am OCD. :-)
2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3
I haven't taken pictures yet. I looked at the A16s but that was getting expensive and to be fair to Ocean LED the guy in Fort Lauderdale told me - if you like them it would be better to get 3 X 8s than 2 X 16s.... as you can imagine I'm working on the admiral for this coming Christmas - actually - she already suggested it as she didn't like the "shadow" created by the drives - so maybe I'll get a third one.
Good call on the switch. The installer did me a solid by locating the switch just above the cockpit refreshment center at the stern of the boat so I could watch the colors as I selected them. BUT - we should have also installed a push button to make it easier to switch programs with a simple push of the button (that will be installed soon - an easy mod) Right now, I have to toggle the switch on and off to change programs. That's clumsy! BTW I would install BOTH an on/off switch and a push button just to make sure the lights weren't left on when we were away from the boat for a long period. I have left them on overnight a few times and that switch has been bumped into the "ON" position a few times by a beer or plate on the refreshment table. At least with the Oceans they won't kill your battery if left on by mistake.
I'll try to take some pictures of the lighting effect, maybe a video. You don't get the full effect in the slip as the docks light up and block the distance. But when it's along a straight breakwall at a restaurant or out in the open - people stop to stare as the changing colors are awesome. If I had more $$$ yeah the 16s would be crazy bright - or - maybe just crazy, where does one stop?
Another cool thing about the colour changing Oceans is I have the trilights (red,blue and white) as my spreader lights in the hard top, and there are three of them - two at the front and one at the back. I'll be adding one to the swim platform, like Mark B. did. By doing that I can have all Blue, Red or white BOTH in the cockpit AND underwater and with a switch on the swim platform too - THAT really drives the Sea Ray guys nuts.
I'll be back at the boat in a week, more or less. I'll take some pictures if we leave the slip. If I can't post them here (Windows 7) I'll PM you and swap e.mails. Remember - not all lumens are rated equally. I have had guys show me the packaging for their lights that say they're brighter than a 100 watt Zenon lights or have 6000 lumens each and they are garbage. It's really buyer beware.
As for us, we're happy with what we got - a third Extreme pro 8 Colours between the drives would be perfect.
BTW be careful if you are buying Ocean LEDs - as they have different "classifications" of model. At this point in time the "Extreme" classification is the brightest for my type of lights - the bar lights. Ocean LED makes super Halides and other Yacht lights but that's way out of my league..
I forgot to answer this - regarding the SeaBlaze Xs. they were great. Very bright. The biggest difference (apart from the colour changing and strobing) with the Oceans was the SeaBlaze Xs were more of a spotlight beam whereas the Oceans (probably because they are a light "bar") gave a wide flood beam.
Bottom line I would pick color changing and strobing lights over brighter single color lights for the wow factor. IMO single color lights are becoming more the norm and if you want to stand-out get color changing lights from someone. I like Ocean but.....
I just have one B3 drive so 2 is pretty much the limit. Unless I did 2 on each side and then I might be crossing over to tacky. I don't know. My original plan was to put 2 Seablaze 3's on each side of the outdrive because of my prior experience with them but then I thought I might as well reach out and see what other members have to say. But after thinking about it, I don't think I have enough room in the engine compartment to fit 2 on each side due to the way the the engine compartment is laid out which sucks because it would look good I feel.
If you do go out to the boat soon, pictures would be much appreciated sir! If you don't mind as well, a picture of the output as dusk would be nice as well when its not all the way dark. LOL now im being picky!
2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3
Go Steelers!!!
MichaelT - Question for you regarding the color changing. I know on the Seablaze that they split the LED's up between the colors. 4 LED's for Blue and 4 for white etc. Do all the LED's on the Ocean light up when changed? I just know that on the Seablaze that if you get the color changing option the lights are not as bright as they are with one solid color option.
2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3
J97. I hope to be at the boat in the next few days. A tech from the marina where I keep our boat installed them while I was away for the winter. He and his fellow techs thought the leds all changed color at the same time but they did say they were so bright that they could hardly look at them or they'd be blinded for a few minutes. I have wondered too if they all change or if it happens in groupings. Obviously given the properties of lights in the color spectrum some lights seem to really shine brighter - like blue and green. The reds are very intense but don't seem to travel as far underwater (not like in air on land) I'll try to see next time I'm there. The blue and green seem to travel as far or farther that the white and when the white is on they seem to be all showing white. I bet the tech support at Ocean LED could answer that in 5 seconds. I have talked with the guys in Ft. Lauderdale a number of times and they were very helpful. My bottom line is that they shine farther out than anything on "normal" boats like from 270s to 370s. I have been smoked by some 50' and 60' cruisers with 5 or 6 metal halide lights. But one guy told me that set-up was 30K - WAY WAY out of my league.
A couple of tips:
First, to repeat what I said in an above post - I was told that it would be far better to get 3 lights to avoid the shadow cast by the stern drives. Second, if you place your led bar above your trim tabs you will lose some downward light. Mine are not above but off to the side. Even so, I can get a bit nore light by dropping my trim tabs. MY best LED accessory so far - LOL - was an extension pole (west marine) for my wash brush. I can easily scrub both light bars from the slip in 5 minutes. MAN, does that ever KEEP them bright. Also depending where you place them - height wise, below the water line - alters the look, maybe more than you would think. Rinker placed the original 700 lumen blue Ocean LEDs way down at about 30" below the surface. This lights up shallow waters and glows bottom up. It does look cool. I had the extreme pro 8 color changing 8s placed about 8 inches under water. That shoots the colour straight out across the surface of the water but still glows downward at least 6 feet up to 15 feet in clear water. If I set the color changing LEDs to blue then ADD the original blue LEDs from Rinker there is a really awesome effect, because I have leds at two levels below water. Given only one choice I'd put them 10" +/- below the water line. In the water where I boat in (St. Lawrence River) the Ocean Pro Extreme 8 color changing light bars shoot out at least 20 feet. Sometimes 30 + feet. I would rather have the colour choice, color changing and color strobe than 40 feet of one color. It's certainly a personal opinion, but imo everyone likes the individual colors on boats at the marinas - but when they see the color fade and color strobe of the Oceans they drool. LOL. I'll call Ocean LED right now and see what they say re: the LEDs and color groupings or not. Anyway, talking about "pimping our rides" is fun. right! :-)
Nothing better than cosmetic upgrades! IF your boat is good in other areas lol
2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3
OKAY - just got off the phone with VP for technical support Ocean LED U.S.A. Let's use my Ocean LED Pro Extreme 8 colour changing light bars as an example. Each of the 8 leds has a cluster four "primary color" LEDs red, blue, green and white in it - making a total of 32 leds on each bar. So, every led is ON for every colour but there are different leds on and combinations of leds on in each main led to create the color arrays. In some cases all 32 might be on and in others less. I was told this is the ONLY way to do this. As well, this was the only way, along with patented and expensive to produce color driver circuit boards, that keep the amp draw the lowest in the industry for lumens provided. It was his opinion that two Extreme Pro 8 color changing light bars would be recommended for boats up to a true 38 feet long. So - two light bars on the outside of the stern drives is "normal" - three light bars, with one between the stern drives would be "awesome" and switching to Extreme pro color changing 16's would be insane bright - in a good way LOL. That's all I've got WHEW!!! The bottom line for me is that I would buy what I did again.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Because we are all on this forum for each other I do not want to steer anyone wrong regarding the purchase of underwater lights, so I keep reflecting (pun intended) on my comments.
This is the best I can advise:
When we purchased the Rinker factory option ocean led lights for our 2013 EC 310 we were very happy with them. They were and still are as good or better than many others. We were so pleased that we purchased them again for our 2014 EC 360.
At one point I looked in a Rinker Boat Brochure and saw a picture of a Rinker EC 310 with "blazing" underwater lights. I asked Captain Steve what gave? It looked like the water was on fire with blazing blue lights. I figured they couldn't be the same as the ones that came oem from the Rinker factory - there had to be an up-grade done? Captain Steve said there were no lighting tricks on the photo shoot - that the leds on that Rinker EC 310 in the brochure were the same "stock" ocean leds that they install at the factory and that the water was just very clear when the shoot occurred.
.....and that, I believe, is the entire point of any conversation regarding which led is brighter - It depends on the water quality at any given time!!!!!
I think there are a lot of "guessing" claims made by manufacturers and probably some flat- out fradulent claims made by them regarding the brightness of various LED underwater lights. As well, there are a number of different ratings for brightness (lumens) and sorting processes - quality control (called binning) for leds. The bottom line for me was, anyone can fake or photoshop a picture. So I tried to compare different manufacturers' lights at marinas on the same night, if possible. Slight changes in water turbidity can have a huge effect on the brightness of the lights.
When we first put our boat in the water, this May, the water was crystal clear and the lights shot back 45 feet from the stern of the boat. I knew that would probably not happen in July/August with more algae in the water.
So, to choose any LED lighting system - I recommend you look at the true lumens rating, the amps the lights draw and also decide what "pattern" of light you want then decide the the big question - what can you afford? Because as many of you know, you can light up N.Y. Harbor if you have the $$$$$$$
Yes J97. There are at least three limiting factors to placement. Like many newbie installers I found the exact place I wanted BEFORE I looked in the engine bay. The holes would have been drilled right through two pieces of electrical equipment!!! DUH :-(
So, I learned lesson #1, forget where you want to put them - find-out where you can put them. I'll try to get my "/$% windows 7 program to liaise with this forum so I can add some pictures - but in the meantime I had a "given" criteria that I wanted them at 8-10" underwater AND outboard of the two stern drives. Now I had 3 variables at play. That left me deciding how close I wanted them to the outdrive or the trim tabs (below). We found the best position we could given all of the obstacles.
In very clear water the lights shine straight down at least 15 feet. When that happens some light reflects off the shiny SS trim plates. The trim tab plates are not directly below but off to the side and below. Still, they do block some of the downward light. That said, some people like that reflection off the trim plates as it brightens the surface more. It's okay with me but if I want to change it I put my tabs down and all the light goes down. A lot of this is personal perception.
The only way that I believe I could improve my set-up in a sane manner would be to add a third bar between the drives, but as I said how much light is enough? Right now it's usually the best, by far, of any boat 38' or smaller at the marinas - so what would I be trying to prove with a third bar? Need V.S. Want - man's dilemma! LOL
This is what it looked like last night (in Bostons not so clear water.)
2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3