What happens when you hear...Clunk Clunk?? B.O.A.T.T

Handymans342

You guys are too mean to me. 

MarkB

My house is also unreliable ... hot water heater stops working, fire alarms need to be replaced every 5 years, my espresso machine just quit (paid +$1000 and it is only 2 years old).

Don't just blame it on boats. Blame it on poor quality in EVERYTHING.  Problem is we are the culprits. We want the price low, we buy the cheapest things. So it's impossible for anything of quality to make money nowadays, unless it has a niche place in the market AND is established (Ferrari - and even those catch fire once in a while).

Michael T

@DI, sorry you have any expense at all but there will be a lot less drama and cost replacing a drive that your big block. Like Al, I was pretty sure it wasn't your 496. They do not seem to break, they might burn a bit of oil in their old age but they don't break easily.

Michael T

@MarkB ...agree - and I have a buddy who spent a lot of money on a fancy VW - and yes, he thinks his car is one of the ones with the software that cheats emissions tests. He believes when he goes to sell it won't be worth anything near what he could have gotten. Boats are part of life in general - it's ALL expensive.

Dream_Inn

Al, I misspoke when I said shaft.  It was a gear that cracked.  I will be getting a picture of it tonight or tomorrow and will then post.  I've only owned the boat for the past 4 summers, so I cannot say what was done in the past.  I will say, during my boating time, the only slight impact I've had was with the other drive about 2 months ago and it was at idle and only caused a few nicks in my AL prop.  I've always been cautious about shifting, getting on plane (staying on plane), and anything related to the drives.  I guess because I just feel I'm pushing a lot of boat with those drives and single prop.  In the last year and a half, I will have replaced both outdrives due to failures in the gears.

MT, I completely agree that it is much better it's the outdrive.  I will also have a good feeling now that both drives are replaced with brand new OEMs, just knowing their condition & that I'm the only one that's used them.

Black_Diamond

If you can get a REAL good picture of the fracture face, that will tell the story. 

Dream_Inn

Well, I'll say the bearing is not more than 3 years old.  Everything sounded fine.  I will add though, just last weekend I heard a slight noise when that drive was all the way tucked in.  One touch on the trim and the noise was gone.  Here are the pictures, maybe they can help tell a story.  Not only was the gear busted off, but the piece inside the housing that the shaft goes into, was busted.  This may have happened after the gear, or may have caused the gear to go?  The lower unit may be ok, but I went with a whole new drive because there was many shavings inside the oil that went everywhere.  The oil was still green, so no overheating.

aero3113

WoW! It almost looks like something may have gotten into the gears and caused it to break. If you look at the broken piece there are a few teeth that are damaged. What did the other gear look like?

MarkB

Wow. You know how much force it takes to do that?!?! 

Black_Diamond

Has nothing to do with force to break that.  Pure fatigue failure.  That gear has been going for a little while, you can tell by the polish on the fracture face and the progression lines of the cracking.  A lot of secondary damage on the teeth from bits and pieces in the gear mesh. 

Usually can be traced to a source: incorrect gear mesh (bearing shimming), bearing failure, or lubrication failure.  Even a mix of them all.  Lubrication failure does not always mean the oil is burnt or discolored.  Failure to keep the metal to metal contact on the teeth causes pitting spalling and it progresses to fatigue failure of the gear.

While the end result is nasty, these are fun to examine and track back the cause.  For those of us into that stuff!  lol

MarkB

Hard to see from the photos. My first take is that it sheared what looks to be metal 2" thick in one shot. 

Black_Diamond

If you look at the fracture face on the gear, it has 'waves' those are all start/stop areas of fatigue fracture. 

Michael T

OMG what a scary photo! Great pictures seems an inappropriate comment but what an opportunity for all of us to get an "internal" look. Good luck @DI and please keep us posted with any further information.

Black_Diamond

I should have taken pics of my drives when the one blew and the other was right behind it. I have no idea how the one even worked it was so bad. lol

Michael T

@BD and @ DI - How old were your drives when they failed - if that's not too personal a question? I have to make a decision this coming spring. My engines/drives are Mercruiser 2014  8.2 mag B 3 Axius. I can purchase 6 years of  Mercury Platinum Level protection covering the engines, drives and Axius along with its related electronics - but the cost will be over USD 10K. I have to decide if the insurance is worth it. If it was a 3rd party insurance I'd say no way but I have heard that the Mercury Platinum Level Protection Plan is very good. I guess it might help with re-sale. I know a member of this forum had the Mercury protection plan and his drive blew-up. He said, they were very  good to him.

Black_Diamond

I had both die (one was trashed, the other right behind it) at about 240 hours or so (5 years or so). 

I was paying for drive service every year (alignment, oil change, greasing) and there was serious questions about what was being done..I had a coupler blow, then the drives, alignment was WAY out, a motor mount left loose and the oil in the drive was all gummed up like it was never changed.  On top of that, the boat was over propped from the factory @24P, now 22P.  So I suspect it was all of the above.  I dumped over $10k for the drives and coupler...about took me out. lol 

Personally, if it was me I'd make the spend.  Especially with the electronics you have.  Just my .02.

Michael T

Last year (the first year my 8.2/B3 s were in the water) I insisted that the drives be removed and watched while the alignment tool was used. It went nicely into both engines. I was told that wasn't necessary to do and I replied it WAS and I wanted it done and the marina's own checklist said it would be done - so DO it! I also insisted that ALL of the gear lube be changed even when told - you only put 75 hours on it - it's fine. I just said I don't care - change it. In fact I have a checklist that I ask the marina to sign-off on, more out of concern that they forget things than they are "cheating" on their work. Of course - if Al's team was working on my cruiser I'd just drop it off and go home, no worries. Honestly, it makes me crazy. I pay the service charges without whining - I just want the friggin' work done that I ask for. GEEZ - humour me - change the friggin' oil, filters, gear lube, impellers, anodes, fuel filters ect.

Dream_Inn

I hear ya MT.  I guess it's why I do as much as possible myself.  I am fortunate that each time I ask about something specific (i.e. rechecking alignment, or change coupler, bellows and bearing while you're at it), they have already done it.  Sunday I scrubbed out both outdrive reservoirs with a toothbrush and then used a paper towel to get it all out.  Changed the oil in the other drive, so that is one less step I'll need to do in a few weeks. Oh, and my drives were original from 2008, so one lasted 6-7 years and the other 7-8 years (timed where extended warranty probably wouldn't had helped).

I will say I looked at my old gimbal bearing and after talking with them, neither of us thought it showed any signs of being worn.  I guess some of this could have easily happened well before I bought the boat as well.  I do remember something on file from previous owner with Merc about some drive issues.  I'll have to look it up again to refresh my memory.

@Alswagg What is the input shaft bearing?  Is that what I have a picture of that is busted from inside the drive?

Thank you guys for all the advice & I'm sure not doubting any of you.  I definitely want to learn from any mistakes I may have made.  Especially since I have two brand new drives.

After all this drive crap with a larger boat & stern drives, it does make me think about inboards the next time around.

Handymans342

So DI, how much time did you spend on Boat Trader looking at Trawlers? LOL

raybo3

DI IMO you lose a lot with inboards. I had them with my Carver and loved it until I got the larger boat with the stern drives. The extra speed the way it handles. I will say, again IMO docking with in boards is easier and of course less maintenance also. Like everyone on this forum, I love my Rinker and I love it just the way it is. 

MarkB

Rabo, also the space you lose on the boat.  My dockmate has a 33' Persuit, it has no mid-berth due to the engine placement. So it only has a V-berth for sleeping.  My 260EC has more sleeping space than his boat.

Dream_Inn

Thanks Al.  As far as the old drive, not really sure what to do with it.  The lower unit may be fine, not really sure about the upper.  It could possibly be rebuilt.  At this point I was not planning on spending any money on it.

Dream_Inn

Al, I can definitely do that.  I'm guessing you'd want all the parts that were in the upper as well.  I'll PM you my contact info.

rasbury

Al- what can a novice like me do to inspect the lower unit? My boat has maybe 200 hours on it now but I am hearing (or think I'm hearing) some noises from mine. When it's all the way down it just makes a growl- trim it up a bit and it seems to go, kind of like above was mentioned. Can you tell anything by turning the prop by hand for back lass? If I ran it on muffs and put it in drive, would I be able to tell a problem?? My 350 motor seems to be jam up but that out drive really worries me...

Dream_Inn

Ras, does it do that growl when idling and then go away while idling with a bit of trim?  Is it a new noise?  If it is yes to both of those questions, I'd have things checked out.  I heard the same thing just the weekend before my issue happened.  I had thought since it went away with a slight trim that it may had been alignment.  If your noise difference is while on plane, then that may be normal because it is working much harder tucked in before you trim.

rasbury

I'd say the latter...perhaps just paranoid. I did just replace the prop shaft bearing because the seal went bad and it was leaking but had no water in the drive....but I'm still apparently losing some fluid somewhere. I need to pressure test it. I have not run it enough to tell if it just the fluid settling or leaking- I see no evidence of leaking so hoping for the best and probably just worry to much! Will be out all weekend so we will see.
Thx, good luck with yours..... 

Michael T

@Alswagg. Al, you probably haven't intended to make a point but IMO you have made a GREATone. Preventative maintenance is almost a thing of the past. I hear many boat owners who don't want to pay to prevent. It drives my dealership's techs crazy. They recommend service in the Fall when they notice things at Winterization or they see items that are time expired yet owners won't pay to prevent. Those same owners scream like heII when a part fails in the Spring and they want the dealership to put their Spring launch schedule on hold to service their boat. Many dealerships also offer Winter specials. I have also seen the shoe on the other foot so to speak. There have been many times, over the years, when I have had to insist on preventative maintenance. I am often told that I can "get another year" out of a part or a lubricant. I know  the techs and the dealerships don't want to look like they're creating work but, for example, my EC 360's drives are pushing over 8 tons of boat, fluids and gear. IMO I'd be an idiot if I didn't change ALL of the gear lube in my drives. I also have insisted that my drives be removed each year and the Mercury alignment tool being used to confirm engine/drive alignment. I could go on. Yes, boating is expensive but IMO it's a heII of a lot more expensive if we don't do preventative maintenance.