Prop Slip Test

Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
Has anyone done a Prop slip test on their boat? 
Here were the results of mine which shows I need prop work.

WOT RPM: 3250 both engines. 25 MPH was the speed. I was not on the boat so I dont know what the wind or current conditions was. I do know that I have hit 28 MPH on the GPS. The mechanic wants my engines turning 3700 RPM. I have 19 diameter by 23 pitch. Anything below 3000 RPM and I start losing plane. 
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Comments

  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    What's your outdrive gear ratio?  Gotta have that to find the prop slip.  If the gear ratio is 2.0:1, your slip is 29%.  If it's 2.2:1, the slip is 22%, and 2.43:1 would be 14%.
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not familiar with the slip calculation, I do know 1" of pitch change will give you about 200 rpm change. Reducing pitch increases engine rpm, adding pitch reduces engine rpm. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • luckydogluckydog Member Posts: 316 ✭✭✭

    WOW I never herd of a Prop Slip Test, learn more every day

  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its 2:1 LaRea. 
    I also just found out that my engines are not running at full RPM when not under load. 300 RPM low. So my props may just be fine. Stay tuned
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    edited December 2015
    The calculation is easy.  First, you need the rotation rate of the propeller.  Since the gear ratio is 2.0:1, you have:

      Prop RPM = engine RPM / gear ratio
            = 3250 / 2.0 = 1625 RPM

    Next, you need the "theoretical speed" the boat would go if the propeller didn't slip at all.  For a 23-pitch prop, the boat should move forward 23 inches for each prop revolution, so:

      Theoretical speed = Prop RPM * pitch / 1056 
            = 1625 * 23 / 1056 = 35.4 mph

    However, the boat's actual speed is always slower than the theoretical speed - in this case, 25 mph.  So the prop slip is just the percent difference:

      Prop slip = (Theoretical speed - actual speed) / theoretical speed * 100
            = (35.4 - 25)/35.4*100 = 29.4%

    You can do this for any combination of boat speed and engine RPM.  
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well what should it be percentage wise?
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LaRea, great guideline for prop slippage.

    @Steve, remember too that your engine's ability to generate HP and its WOT are dependent on load, humidity and temperature. At 20 hours we took my boat up to WOT for about 10 seconds. The RPMs were 4950 with the GPS showing 52.9 MPH.....but that  was with low fuel, water, waste and practically no gear.  As well the temps were in the low 70s with very low humidity (less than 40%). We repeated at 40 hours at WOT for about 5 seconds and got 4750 RPMs and 48 MPH but that was with a more normal load and temperatures in the low 80s with humidity in the 70% range.

     There's slippage and then there are water conditions, temperature/humidity conditions and boat load all of which will affect your WOT. As well, I've experienced "wild card" boating situations that defy theory. My 190 Rinker with a 383 bravo 1 and 23" SS prop demonstrated virtually no slippage at all because the hull was so light with a low windage profile in comparison to the amount of horsepower. BTW a "loose" rule of thumb is that it takes 12 HP to increase a boat's speed 1 MPH above its normal MPH.

    Anyway, imo, the really relevant thing - in your situation - is that your boat's WOT should fall within its designated RPM band most of the time you will be using it - and - with the load you will usually be putting in it. Of course, it will vary quite a bit in SW Florida with the considerable temp/Hum. swings from season to season and that's why the rpm bands are flexible. H

    However, if your tech is correct and your engines are off by 450 rpm for how you intend to boat then, imo,  something is way off. Could be your props - and they might not be slipping, they might just be too "tall" as in too high a pitch.

  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,395 ✭✭✭✭✭
    did I fall into the rocket science forum by mistake??
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    For boats in general, I've seen references to 5-25% prop slip.  For a Bravo 3, it's typically 8-12% (according to @Alswagg ).  Handy's B2 is probably higher than a B3, but I'm not sure what's normal.

    Ras, there will be a pop quiz, so study up!
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no Ras...., it's not rocket science it's way more complicated (and expensive) - its boat science. $$$$$
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MT, my engines should rev up to 3700 sitting at the dock in neutral. They only hit 3250. So, he is checking the throttle cable adjustments and other things. A diesel has to power up to preform at its best. Very different from gas motors because of the governor. He is also going to check the boost and exhaust temp. Where is Rowboat when I need him! Once we get the engines perfect then we can do another prop test. He also said: the hotter the fuel the more HP is lost. Hence the fuel coolers on the gas motors. I am learning a lot. 
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Steve, that is another story for sure. They definitely should hit their wot at the dock, even though I wouldn't do that too often. Question though Steve, I have driven diesel dive boats before. They have the big diesels which usually top-out at about 2600 rpm +/- but they are not supposed to be run at WOT for long, more like 2300rpm.
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They are not Yanmars MT
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Back to the topic and maybe Drew or Al can answer to what my prop slip is. 19 Dia. 23 pitch. 32 MPH @ 3750 RPM. I think my drive is 2 to 1ratio. 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    can't think, you gotta know what that ratio is... the difference in slip will be massive even one step in ratio off. 

    if it IS in fact 2:1, you're looking at 20% slip.... that's a lot of wasted engine.... 

    on a gasser, what is the RPM and speed where the boat planes?  What is the average top speed for the boats with like gasser engines?  the hull isn't any different for your diesel, is it? 
    Post edited by 212rowboat on
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is the ratio stamped on the drive?
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it should be... if not, you can pop the top cover off and count the teeth... you may be able to look the serial number up, as well.. 
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Where do I look on the drive??
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bet you're running a 2.2, which is/was available, and @ 11% slip... which is not bad... i was having a hard time believing a 19" prop would slip that much at those engine speeds. 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it will be on the upper, on the port side... 
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The way it performs now I do not have to change props at all
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Al, when will you learn to spell Diesel. LOL
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm thinkin you aren't airing it out enough and then settling back like a gasser would... coming out of the hole and running up to 36~38mph for just a second or so, and THEN settling back to whatever cruise speed they choose that keeps them on plane... if you can't get it far enough out of the water in the first place, you might not be reaching the high step and on the pad. 

    you may have to play with your trim a little differently to get it to pop up on step quicker- getting your timing just right from full flap and throttle and not hitting the flaps or trim until you're nearing the power curve- then all at once setting her loose. 
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Steve, it's called putting a boat on plane! LOL
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes Yanmars. Thanks
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    handy,

    I ain't the one to better explain this, but I'll spill what I do know... 

    there is a relatively flat area on your hull as there is all planing hulls, and it's called the 'pad'.  It may not be flat like a bay boat, and it may retain a good bit of the Hull's V, but other than that it is a relatively gentle entry angle of attack, and offers little other obstruction... 

    once the boat is pushed up and on the pad, it takes only a fractional amount of power to keep it there.  where energy is expended to lift, and plow through the water, once on the pad the direction of energy is used to maintain angle of attack and push it just hard enough to stay on the pad.  The angle of entry your 'pad' makes is based largely on your trim and/or tabs... dragging the tabs will force the leading edge of the pad to make entry, which may be bad as that angle may be steeper than what is an inch or two behind it.  The amount of force on your outdrive is ridiculous, as it is the hinge point for the front of the boat (or the entire boat, actually), and just a few degrees alteration of the attack angle will make a big big difference.  

    my question is if your boat has the 'speed' to get on the pad... it no doubt has the power, but 'speed' is what is required to push it up there.  if it doesn't have the speed, my question is if your hull is built differently than others powered by gas- with the pad area slightly forward- and I doubt it is...(edited to add: diesels are powerful in terms of TQ, and TQ is what you need, but they're NOT known for fast spooling up as witnessed on a RPM gauge, and THAT may be what you're missing that is keeping you off the pad)

    my next question is:

    what device do you use to trim and tab the attitude of the boat?  a gauge, or, your instincts?  

    the thing about finding this sweet spot is that it can't easily be trimmed/tabbed once you're already out of the water and planing.. it's better served jumping all the way up on the pad and then moving the trim/tabs until water it cutting right behind where the hull transitions into the pad- which means you get one shot (hole shot to plane) to push the boat up on the pad, and THEN transition...

    most your heavy boats don't have the power to ease on the pad... few do... if you don't believe me, head out underway, and slowly move the throttle to WOT, not by popping it but by a slow steady transition to WOT taking maybe 30 seconds to transition from idle to WOT... I bet a dollar you'll find yourself plowing off plane with a heavily loaded engine... the boat and engines demand that heavy powerful 'pop' to move that hull up as well as forward...

    if you google hull design and theory, I wager there is enough information to keep you reading for days on this subject.  
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My hull is the same as any other 342s. I use full tabs to get on plane then they go back to normal when on plane and trim the drives 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is what I was thinking.... and I'm also thinking you need about 35~38MPH to get totally up on the pad... staying on the pad would be dependent on sea conditions and how you flutter the tabs, but you should be able to back way down once you're on it- like to around 22~25MPH, and get some serious range out of that thing. 
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