sanity check.... engine upgrade

212rowboat

so I need some items for my 'lil 212... 

exhaust manifolds and risers are due... circulation pump is due... I have no clue about compression on that engine, but it appears all of the above is OE and a build date of '05... If I'm going to pull it, I'd do a four barrel intake w/ 650cfm holley, 1.6:1 rocker rollers,  water pump (as said prior) double roller timing chain, obviously plugs and wires, likely new oil pan, likely new oil pump, ect... y'all know how these things go... 

If I do all of these things, and I do them all myself that way I know they're done right, I'm looking at a cost of around $2.5k~$3k... 

I can buy a 383cid engine right now for $2500... it lacks accessories and it lacks intake manifold and carb... it has merc exhaust manifolds and risers, dizzy, cap, wires, plugs, water pump, roller double chain, 1.5:1 rocker rollers, fuel pump, ignition...

I'm almost certain my current accessories will bolt right up...

The tq and hp curve is off idle to 5500 RPM (370hp@5500rpm, but 320@4800rpm, if the graphs are accurate and the builder is providing accurate dyno charts, it's showing 310@4400rpm)... it's rated to 6200rpm w/ the rollers and the beehives... for comparison, my 'lil current 262 only produces a little over 160@4400 rpm, but jumps to 190@4800... apples to as close to apples as can be made, I'm looking at adding just a bit under double the HP/TQ at 4400rpm. 

I have an alpha drive... it isn't rated to no 6200rpm.. .As far as me operating the boat, I don't need the speed or power at anything above 4k RPM right now- and rarely go there, so I don't think I'd be taxing the alpha that bad... I like to get on plane and back down to ~20-25mph, or just over 3k rpm right now w/ the Ron Hill Pleasure 5 19p/14.25" prop... I don't think I'll be changing that (the prop), but I may... I don't foresee my uses changing anytime soon, but, again- y'all know how those things happen... I like the idea of having more 'get you out of trouble' power (power in terms of agility and reaction, not necessarily top speed)...  If I do re-prop at the same time, this rig ought to be able to turn a 23p, if my guts are right... and it may make more sense to do that. 

which would you fellers rec- a repower or a refresh?  

jme097

I am almost certain that the Alpha 1 drives are only capable of handling up to 300 HP. I may be wrong though. 

But ****, if you can get a big power jump for the same cost and not that much more work then why not. If its a direct swap/

212rowboat

no, you're right... 

they can be tweaked... but it's still an alpha... 

a lot of the concern can be mitigated by how the user uses it- and I just ain't into hauling **** and scaring small children and dolphins....  

212rowboat

i've a bud with a built alpha and ratio at 1.4ish something and hard gears... I think mine is a 1.62:1 or close around there, and w/ OE gears...

those things are witchcraft and voodoo...  

Michael T

I had a 383 built for my Rinker 190. We ran it up to 400HP on the dyno then dialed it back to about 380 HP.  I ran it with a stock Alpha l drive for two years before switching to a Bravo l.  The Alpha held up fine. IMO the Alpha l wouldn't  twist unless you were wake jumping or such and thus taking off and putting loads on it fast.
BTW..... is there such a thing as sanity where boats are concerned and more importantly where boats and HP are concerned? I could never stay sane regarding those discussions. Fortunately for me I had Admirals who understood!   LOL

212rowboat

well the CFO (admiral) just ok'd it.... so... 383 it is.. and my bud w/ the alpha just texted back I can use his shop to install, and that he has a box full of props to try... he says I could push a 26p no problem... swell... but that may be a problem, as my family will be afraid to ride with me.  

212rowboat

can the alpha lower impeller allow enough water to cool a 383? 

212rowboat

too much trouble...... going w/350@300hp instead... heat too much for alpha, and i dont care to run through exhaust...

Handymans342

Just get a diesel. Then you would have something to play with Drew

212rowboat

I've already got my hands full with a diesel, man.. I'm dialing back the complications with my floater, though... of interest: a bravo one will handle 600 ponies with ease of you're talking gassed, but only 340 ponies if it's a diesel... Guess why? :-) 

So... The 383 may be back up for consideration...  I'm looking at a thru hull exhaust that will eliminate the issue about heat in the drive introduced by the exhaust.  Still, concerned about grenading the box- but if it makes it a season I may consider drilling the two extra holes for a bravo.  

So.. I've got some contimplating to do... 

212rowboat

If i stick with the thunderbolt doesn't it limit to something like 5200rpm?  I've only hit it once while testing a 17p prop.. 

Man, I didn't set out to drop ten g's, but it's getting there quick.. 

212rowboat

oh yeah- knock sensor and sticking with thunderbolt V- obviously for an 8, though... I think the timing is a very conservative 10* BTDC base, right?  No going to advance at the crank.. 

I appreciate your advice, sir... 

I don't need a speedboat, but I like enough power to get me out of trouble if I'm dumb enough to get into it... I'm thinking range this season, with fuel being cheaper and re-powering to a more reliable plant... I'm thinking a 383 (this one built off a 350SBC) will be actually easier on fuel than the 4.3 under similar on-board weight...   

212rowboat

i will do so, sir... thanks!!!  how is the snow season treating you and your son? 

212rowboat

nice- i had some sledders use the cabin in iron river MI a few weeks ago (one night stay during the week)... they were riding the trails adjacent the place that run for quite a distance, apparently.. 

if i'm ever up there in the winter and have the time, I'd love to give that a shot... 

Michael T

I used an SS Gil drive shower and synthetic oil in my Alpha and had Corsa Quick &  Quiet through hull exhaust with Gil composite exhaust tips with integral flappers. After two years I switched my Alpha to a Bravo. As I said earlier just be sure to avoid loading on and off the drive by wake jumping etc. and you will be fine. I posted pictures of the 383 engine we built on the dyno and in the Rinker 190 a while back. Good luck Drew,  have FUN!