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Buying New vs Used

06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
I had brought this up in a previous thread but more and more questions are popping in my head about buying new vs used.

I found it fascinating that many of you said you were able to buy a new boat at a boat show, or maybe a dealer as well, cheaper than you were seeing used models online.  How can that be?

Another question is do dealers/boat shows give you better interest rates than private lenders?  What is the average interest rate?  

I have always been a used car fan.  I let the lady drive new so I know she is safe, but give me an old American car and I can take that thing apart and put back together, not rocket science.  New cars and all the technology is just not possible for me to work on.  Ever looked under the hood of a Prius?  No thank you.  Now with boats, I know technology is always advancing, but are they becoming so smart that you need training to work on them?  Dont want this to lead to a "are we being replaced by robots'' discussion but those with new boats, whats it like working on them yourself?

I could buy a new boat at the size I have now or maybe a little larger, but as I get more experienced and with the possibly of my family growing, I want to go larger.  Ah, the hard questions we face as boat owners.   
Patrick
06 Rinker 270
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The technology has made engines and drivetrains vastly more reliable and with more power. Remember the days of plugs/cap/rotor every 12,000 miles?  Now 100,000 miles. FI greatly improved power and economy. We usually forget the pita old engines were. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2016

    @06Rinker270 I have bought both at boat shows and at the showroom. I've bought too many used to list here but I've purchased 5 new Rinkers.

    Here's how the pricing went. The first one was a show special. I got a fantastic price and trade-in the last day of a boat show and as an extra, Mercury was working with the manufacturers to offer extended warranties at no extra cost. Special financing was available but my late wife and I had saved the money so we paid cash.

    After that I traded each Rinker at the dealer on the next new one. That automatically saved me a 13% government tax. I got a great trade-in value too as my dealer knew how I maintained my boats. A couple of times my boats were already sold before they left my house.

    I bought one boat after the new models came out and the dealer wanted to move the last year's model out of the show room. I got a great deal on my trade-in (which sold in a week), saved on tax and got a great deal on a new boat that was a model year behind.

    I bought another new one simply to get the options I wanted (350 mag and through hull exhaust to name a couple) but I purchased it in the late summer when the factory was lining-up work for the winter run and if you put down a big deposit, you got a great deal. I got a very good price by doing this.

    When I went to cruisers from runabouts, I traded boats in again to save the 13% government tax and that saving coupled with a very fair trade-in price was far better than I could ever have gotten with a private sale.

    Again, I bought at times of the year - late summer - when you can make a great deal as manufacturers want to line -up assembly for the Winter runs. NOW - that's what you have to do if you want to have control over ALL of your options, colors etc.....and that's pretty much by buying new.

    HOWEVER, if you want the best deal possible you do what gtyee (on this forum) did and fine a totally optioned boat that was treated with an open cheque book maintenance schedule and properly broken-in and respected. If you like the color and options you can't beat a deal like that.

    I also have friends who deliberately bought a boat whose hull was solid and had good lines but the engine and upholstery were tired and they did the work to restore the engine, upholstery and fittings to save a ton of money and end-up with a great boat......but that's not my thing. I wanted to spend my time on the water not in a garage LOL

    There was less and less I can work on with as the technology improved. My 2014 EC 360 is a technological marvel and I would not change one aspect of that. I can do all of the routine maintenance on it but would defer to a technician for the more technical aspects.

    That said when getting into technical trouble shooting regarding, for example, sensors I read-up on what should be done and we discuss the options. I have saved a lot of money by doing that. If the tech and I disagree we consult Mercury technical support. I've been correct in my trouble shooting thoughts about 90% of the time.

    That's my opinion, hope it is somewhat useful.



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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I could retire with all of MTs losses on boats
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    F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
     I bought a used boat last year, 1993 rinker 300 fiesta vee, twin 5.7

    A new rinker same size at the toronto boat show was 175,000 us, so $227,000 cdn.

    My used Rinker cost $20,000. Its fully functional, and does everything that the new rinker can do.  AND I am not worried about kids spilling stuff, or stuff getting used on the boat. Other than some outdated colors in the interior, its the same as a new boat.

    Saving the extra $207,000 cdn, allows me to install upgrades that I like, BBQ, electric downriggers, ect , and never have to worry about fuel costs. Or even a total loss of the boat. Also makes the slip fees non issue as well. All the engines and outdrives could crap out and I am still ahead.

    Basically the utility of the used boat is the same as the new boat. In fact greater since I have piece of mind since I am not worried about it at all.

    Thats my thoughts anyway.

    If it was a machine that I needed as a tool, or work related it would be a differnt story, this however is a toy, so its functionality is treated as such.

    I also can put regular oil into it , and not worry about synthetic :) poke poke

     


    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
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    jme097jme097 Member Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭
    Lmao^

    But to answer your question @06Rinker270 I think you might have read my previous post about the Detroit Boat Show. My end boat is going to be a new 310 with the built in grill and hardtop and all that jazz. I have been browsing for a couple months just always keeping my eye on the used market just to be aware. When I walked up the Hideaway booth at the show, I was seeing the Rinker factory offering savings that were well below what the used newer 310's were going for. I believe a lot of this was because the new owner of Rinker (Bennington) might be trying to push the brand on the market. They were offering $20-$25k off new with a free hardtop upgrade when I was talking to them. The reason they lost me is because they wouldn't budge on the trade in but oh well theres always the future. 

    The deals are out there but just like MT said, you have to buy at the right time. 
    Boat Name: Knot A Worry
    2007 280 Rinker Express 6.2L B3
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ....well I'd always use synthetic, even in a lawn mower....and Steve I appreciate your concerns for my pocket book but you're more worried about my money than I am. IMO it's a sport and if you can't afford to play you shouldn't whine, if you are obsessed with fuel costs go over to the dark side and get a sailboat - although in reality you have a sail boat as diesels are slow and smelly.
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    BayrunnerBayrunner Member Posts: 177 ✭✭✭
    F1100 - I bought a used FV312 2004 in a condition one would say right off the showroom floor.  45K to me was a lot of money but after the survey the inspect told me to buy this boat he never seen anything in this great condition.  Now stating all that it is rare opportunity to come across such luck as I did and I am so grateful to be so luck. I bought it late in September and only had it out 4 times.  But it ran well.  Very happy Rinker owner.
    Bayrunner -- FV312 - Simple Pleasure
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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    I was talking with my brother and we compared sail replacement costs and how often this must be done with the costs of fuel.  He has a 36 foot C and C.  Turned out they are about the same.
    Post edited by TonyWalker on
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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    Yes buying a 2010 or older you will start to have a significant difference in savings.  Its all about what you can afford and what you want.  I am more interested in buying a 2014 vs 2016.  Anything more than that difference you are going to have a greater price gap.  Also a big question to me is interested and payment you pay on new vs private lender.  If your going to buy a 2014 of a model, why not just buy new and get all the options you want?  Also get that warranty which I think is priceless.  
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MT you have digressed to Trump level
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2016

    Steve, is that good or bad IYO?



    Post edited by Michael T on
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Might be good LOL
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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    Not to steer tot far off but I love the art and history of a sail boat.  I have been trained on one a little bit, and one day may buy one for fun.  But Im all power.
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @06Rinker270. The Admiral is an excellent sailor and was a course official at an Olympic sailing event. First I got her into go-fasts then she got me into cruising but allowed the 502s. It took a couple of years but I got her to the dark side of sound and fury LOL
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You better get her hearing aids MT because you have underwater exhaust with cats. LOL
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594 mod
    Patrick, if you are looking only a year or two old, then yes, buying at a boat show at the right time is probably your best move.  I don't think I could buy new just because you will have that initial list of things that need fixed.  I couldn't spend that on something new and then need to get things fixed.  & warranty, well, there's a reason they sell warranties.  Just remember, for what you can pay for new, you can easily add another 25% more length if you went 4 or 5 years old. 

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    06Rinker27006Rinker270 Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭
    If you buy new you will have to get things fixed?  I dont follow...
    Patrick
    06 Rinker 270
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    F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    who is not for +25% length :)
    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    My story exactly, new is probably worse than used when it comes to issues.  I must have needed about two dozen things fixed.  Rainwater leaks into the cabin were the worst of the problems.  Other mechanical issues would usually wait for a mechanic.  The final cabin leaks on our 2006 were found and fixed last year.  Now that the boat is dry, I can concentrate on rehabilitating the deck in the cabin.  It was really abused from all the leaks.  This is a 2006 boat and it is now 2016.  It takes a long time to train a new boat.

    Tony
    Salt Shaker 342
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    F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    Plus the previous owners fix alot of stuff :) My boat had $13,000 in repairs when I bought it.

    as long as the hull is good....you can have a great used boat..for a fraction of the cost of a new one.

    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    My theory.  Now that the boat is perfect and sound, it will be in my hands as long as I am boating.  No need to upgrade or downgrade.  I feel like a father to this ornery child.  But I tamed the beast.
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rinker was absolutely great with the warranty items on both the EC 310 and EC 360. I couldn't be happier with the way they and my dealer handled them. It is important to remember these things are more complicated than a house. I used to build houses. The boats have three power sources, two voltages, battery power, engines and drives, showers, sinks refrigerators, stoves, microwaves, toilets.....and they get bounced around. There are bound to be some warranty issues. All in all I would go new or an almost new, as in one or two years old.
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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    MT, all of those mechanical things were great, no issues.  The water leaks were a huge problem.  I had to love this boat to deal with them.  The cabin leaks were everywhere.  Down the walls, over the deck etc.

    One big source was the rub rail that was improperly installed.  No fillers in the screw holes for the temporary screws that held the top and the bottom of the boat while the glue cured was a big one.  The final fix was the rebedding of the port lights that were an unsuspected but serious source of water leaks.

    Me thinks the Salt Shaker was built on a Friday.  All is fine now.  Great boat.  Great hull.  Take here anywhere.  She is not afraid of big seas.  Lake Michigan proved that.
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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    And the Rinker support was great.  But we were a far distance from HQ and they were probably late in realizing the depth of my leak problems.
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    MarkBMarkB Member Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you have time to look for and survey an old boat (investigate properly) then sure that is an option that can save big money but normally you have to go for something that is 10 years or older to get a good discount. 

    If you're in a big hurry like I was, it's dangerous to by old as chances are you will pick up a boat with problems. Nothing like him getting a boat and it breaks on the first day.  So I bought new and that gave me peace of mind.

    I bought at the boat show and got a great discount. Probably $30k off retail.

    I'm not sure you get a better interest rate at the show for financing. It's going to be around 5 to 6%.

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Boat + Water = Fun"

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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594 mod
    Well, I'll put it this way, my first boat I bought used, 2 years old (for 40% less that PO paid new) and sold it 6-7 years later with a loss of $6k.  My 310, I bought 4 years old for about half of new, then sold 6-7 yrs later for$25k loss.  Current boat, I bought 4 years old for almost 60% off what PO paid (I saw what their loan was for, so I assumed they put nothing down, so probably more than 60%) & I can easily sell it for more than what I paid (including transport cost/taxes).  Now, my first boat, and current boat I've put money into them (first one was due to some lessons learned the hard way, current boat was just maintaining).  I'd never be able to have the size boat I have without buying used.  & I'll say she is way more reliable than anything I'd buy new right now.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    Mike_GMike_G Member Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    If you buy new you will have to get things fixed?  I dont follow...
    That's what I said when I bought my brand new boat and had to get stuff fixed.  I bought mine at the fall 2014 boat show, used it for 3 weeks and found several issues.  Nothing major like leaks or anything though.  There's a list i posted on this forum if you search.

    Rinker ended up shipping it back to the factory in Indiana for the winter.  I got the boat back the next spring (before boating season) and it's been perfect ever since.  I didn't care and I told them to keep it all winter since the season was over and I got free indoor heated storage all winter!  WOOT!  -=Mike G.

    2014 Rinker 260EC


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    craigswardmtbcraigswardmtb Member Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016

    I am in a 2005 360 that I bought for 89k 4+ years ago.  The boat has been great and everything we ever wanted.  We always go to boat shows and I still rarely find a 360 that I like better.  Between upgrades and maintenance/repairs maybe I dropped another 15k since that time.  But honestly I try not to keep track....  In the end we think we got a great value and never would have bought this size of boat if we were buying new.  We financed through a reputable local company focused on boat loans and pay a 4.5% interest on an original 50k loan.  Not sure how that compares to new boat interest rates.  Personally I would never buy new.  If money was not a concern than even then I would think about buying a boat a year old.  Find the boat we want with low hours and a good service record where we could assess and feel comfortable that any new boat kinks were worked out.

    It is pretty funny what the non-boating world (many of our guests), think of the boat we have.  Instantly we are perceived as high rollers with our 300k boat....  I guess this could be good or bad, but we do take it as a compliment of our boat and the deal we got.

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    nhsdnhsd Member Posts: 182 ✭✭✭
    Even though you guys are in a whole different world than me with my little 212, I appreciate those who buy new boats (and take great care of them) so that I can buy it 8 or 10 years later.....

    Dave

    2002 Captiva 212, 5.0 220 hp, Alpha 1, 1.62 gears

    Moon Township, PA - boating in the Ohio River

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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    Anther funny story.  When we were looking at boats sort of semi seriously, I got a liking to the 342 that was on the lot.  When I say lot it was on a corner lot with some other boats and the location had nothing to do with marine life.  This was 2007 when the economy was starting to tank.  The salesman suggested a price and an interest rate he thought he could obtain for us.  I confidently said that if he could get this interest rate and the price was as promised, I would take the boat.  WELL, he called a couple of days later and said it was all ready for me to sign the papers.  I was not prepared for that.  But what the heck!  Now the lot where the boats were on display is back to its more natural occupation, that of a used car lot.

    I need to point out that this was a "no doc" loan.  What ever I said at each question went on the application.  Those were the times!

     Tony
    Salt Shaker 342
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