repower, reset- figured I'd open a thread for doc'n it...

212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
new engine complete... 260HP rated as she's delivered, but I'm expecting right at 290~295 by the time it hits water..
     vortec heads
     healthy cam
     high rise square bore dual plane intake
     600cfm Holley as delivered, but I may rejet or bump to a 700cfm if it can handle it
     new HEI dizzy and ignition, more trustworthy than thunderbolt V by my reckoning, and base advancing 14*
     full rolling rockers 1.6:1 (I went ahead and pulled the trigger on them instead of using non-self aligning 1.55's)
new outdrive- SEI
     1.62:1 geared new upper and lower complete, drive shower
     retaining Ron Hill  19p/14.125" 5 blade S/S prop
new electronics
     stereo
     amp
     wired remote
     speakers
     VHF
new gauges
     EFF Faria.... 
outfitting bilge
     engine mounts
     blowers (doubling them)
     vent ducts
     dual battery box w/built in charger/tender
     new Y pipe and shutters
     fresh wrapping wiring harnesses
     paint
Lights
Trailer (going to go with a tandem axle torsion sprung aluminum bunk w/ LED's)

thinking real hard about installing a hybrid between ski boom and topper...


It's just a 'lil 212 Captiva, but it's perfect for my purposes trailering less than 1/4mile to the ICW and pulling it and thoroughly washing it after every use... I've looked around quite a bit lately, and there is nothing that I've seen that suits my purposes better- just more bells and whistles and a lot more cost I just can't justify... I have a hard time letting things go that are good to me, and this ought to freshen things up enough to justify saving the coin on a new floater.

Comments

  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    oh... and I built the gantry today... I'll be doing this proper shade tree style... :smile: 
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    I like the way you have set this engine up, nicely balanced parts. I guarantee you will have a blast with that sleeper! When I swapped a 350 magnum for the 4.3LX in my Rinker 190 it made a HUGE difference....and that difference was joyful fun in acceleration! I'm sure I speak for a lot of forum members when I say we'd appreciate pictures.
    Post edited by Michael T on
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,756 mod
    Great project!
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pictures and what's the compression ratio?
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll do some pics- when it starts to get interesting... 

    I don't know the compression ratio, but i guess I could figure it out... the static one, anyhow.  I am interested to know what the dynamic compression ratio is- but I won't be able to do that until i see the cam card... 

    I don't know how many gear heads are in here- a few- and don't know how many will read this- but if there are and they do- do you advance at the timing chain?  I'm being told by several sources to get the best out of the cam selection i'll need to mechanically advance the cam 4*.. 

    I'm being told that most the cams advertise a built in advance, but it's not nearly as aggressive as advertised, and to basically line the dot and then advance using the 4* key. 

    thoughts? 
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe there is a degree wheel you put on the cam gear so you can dial it in
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yeah,  I get all that... degreeing and mapping events... 

    the idea of advancing cam timing is to move the powerband of the engine.  advancing it lowers the powerband.. it allows the intake valve to open sooner and exhaust to open later.  by advancing the intake event is done sooner, and the dynamic compression is greater- more compression more power... couple with advancing SPARK timing, you can squeeze a lot out of a little... 

    retarding cam timing does opposite- raises the power band and delays intake opening/ exhaust closing- which means less dynamic compression but better expulsion of exhaust, usually meaning higher vacuum signal and an engines ability to reach higher RPMS. 

    I'm looking for efficiency at cruising speeds.  this is between 3k and 4k.. almost always between those engine speeds. moving the TQ band down, by advancing the cam timing will lower the output to where I most use it- if the engine is producing all the power i need most efficiently where i most often use it, it isn't loaded up- if it's not loaded up then a touch of fuel can be added and spark timing advanced to further maximize it- which 'should' net greater economy and extend the life of the engine... 

    increasing the leverage of the rockers will almost necessitate an advance to take better advantage of them, unless I have excessive power and instead aim for engine speed... If I don't have the power I need/want to push the boat around, I can hedge the bet by lowering the TQ curve by advancing where it enters the powerband where I need it most- right where the hull is pushing to plane.. 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MSD Shift assist module comes with the engine as it was built.  I've not used one, but according to the builder it does what it's supposed to do... ever used one? I'm curious to find out how it works- quality of function, ect... 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    why can't I just ground the coil for the interrupt just like merc does?
  • F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    If you are doing any of this for fuel efficiency, you would be better off ditching these old V8s and move into a modern FI V8.

    Messing with cams and timing on these old V8s is a waste of money. The power increases you get for the dollar are very poor return on money spent. Using a non oem big 8 rolling at idle cam to get reliability is not going to happen. In most cases it places extra strain on an already outdated head and valve train design.  They are very low output to displacement engines.


    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    F1100- my boat is my toy, and fuel economy isn't my intent- it's just a measure that it's doing what is expected.  I resisted MPI and PCM's at first, but I really like them now.  the things that can be done are astounding... the things they can do with diesel's blow my mind with gadgets like common rail w/pressures up to 30kpsi, and piazio injectors that gate that fuel that can allow as many as five distinct injection events per cycle... it's crazy.. I had to buy a timing light, if you can believe it, for this engine.. not because of the light, now, to be honest- but because it doubles as a accurate tach..

    Al- I'm not stuck on the ignition it's being shipped with.  I'm not stuck on anything about it except that it is a fresh block and rotating assembly which I won't change (except for maybe the camshaft) and the vortec heads are brand spanking new w/ all needed for a solid reliable platform... Everything from there up is on the table... It'll never be easier to work on than it will be sitting in a stand.  If it's going to happen to it it's going to happen now... Once it's planted and the bugs are worked out I'll move to another toy for tweaking and just do the PMCS on this one. 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    guess what showed up yesterday?  

    it was all I could do not to start pulling the existing motor last night... I had to, consciously and under great intent, walk away from the new engine.  There are things that gotta happen to it first, no matter the temptation to stick it in there as is... and, even the mounts came with it... 

    I pulled the old drive and set it aside... new drive also arrived, it's still in the box(es)... 

    I'm going to have a good and long weekend... SO looking forward to it!!
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know the feeling.....and I suspect part of it is your knowing how much fun that "freshened" 212 is going to be! It will feel like a different boat, at least mine did!
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    got the 4.3 out... I have two engines sitting on a trailer right now.  

    a disc brake froze on the starboard side of the trailer- the lugs were frozen... I've never spent as much time on a wheel before in my life.  Five lugs came off under some heavy cursing, but that fifth one... that fifth one must have been deaf... :smiley: 

    I spent no less than five hours on the trailer before I even flipped the sun pad back and released it's ram's/struts... 

    Maybe an hour and a half to get that engine out of there.. it took more time to figure out how to attach the engine level because i couldn't find two shackles... I've charged them with unauthorized absence, so if you guys see them out goofing off somewhere let them know they're in big trouble, aye? 

    I snapped some pic's... they're on my phone... If i recall I'll post them... all they are of is an engine dangling on my gantry, but... at least they're pics, making good on my promise to include some! 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Add to the list new ski/wake tower and speakers w/ soft top... The list keeps growing, and I've been waiting on new rear engine mounting bolts that just arrived yesterday... 

    So when I pulled the old engine and removed the rear mount bolts there was a pile of corroded metal where those little lock spring things should have been... So I opted to replace them... Duh.. a simple part, that should have been available anywhere as there are so many alpha one gen two drives around... Not so.. and the ones I found?  Sorry, it's a principle thing.. I'm not paying $120 for two mounting bolt kits... It took two solid weeks to find and secure two bolt sets and pay the ridiculous $30 msrp for them...  I just want to do it right, but I came close to engineering something that would work likely just as well.  

    But, alas... It gave the fill job of the prior mounting holes in the stringer blocks time to cure, which is something that was smart to wait on anyway..... Before next Saturday I plan on splashing her and going through the ten hours prescribed outdrive break in process... 
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Where are some before and after pics geeezzzzz  :)
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I haven't planted the new engine yet... the alignment bar is ready to go, though... 

    the last time I pulled the engine it was perfectly aligned on reinstall, but I'll caveat that by saying the bar I had then was short... i ordered a two piece and got half of it, and it's fortunate it was the business end that I got... i had to reach up past the yoke to fully install and pull... so.. one of the many items i bought this time around is a full length alignment rod.... 

    the holes left by the prior engine mounts were lagged w stainless wood thread type lag bolts, and were not removed last time i pulled the engine (the base of the mount).  obviously these were this time... i recall seeing this last time but had forgot about it- the lags are put in at an angle conducive to mounting them without removing the engine.  

    i inspected those stringer blocks (i don't know what else to call them) carefully while I was cleaning the bilge- and there are no other holes in them- or evidence of them being patched... so.. my question is:

    how did the factory do it?  did they plant the engine and attach the rear mounts, and then do some sort of alignment w/ the mounts attached to the engines?  and then just use a long extension and run in the lag bolts?  like I said... all four bolts were planted at an angle that allowed them to be removed using an 18" straight extension from above... I'll not be convinced the engine was installed, aligned, removed, mounts attached, and engine reinstalled.  not that it makes any difference, it's just a curiosity and against everything I've read about installing engine mounts...  
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so..... Al.... off the top of your head, do you know what the weight of a fully dressed Mercruiser small block is?  by fully dressed, I mean manifolds, risers, all accessories, ect... ready to connect and turn the key... 
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    I know my 383 was under 800 pounds - maybe closer to 650 or even less because of the many aluminum parts. I think the old cast heads were about 75 lbs each!
    Post edited by Michael T on
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks, MT... 

    I just did something I'd never recommend.  I just dangled an engine complete with accessories manifolds and risers off a 5/32 7-19 strand stainless cable.. 

    Pucker factor one hundred. 

    She's sitting on the stringer blocks and the rear bolts are through (but not tight).  I have only about a two inch space between the front of the engine and the bulkhead...  It's tight, but, the boat was optioned for a v8, so, I reckon it's fine.  

    And yes, I just had the nerve to use the word competent after using a 5/32 cable to suspend just shy of 950#'s... :-)  the breaking strength was /is 2800#... Max working load 650#... the winch can handle 2k#... I figured it was close enough... And, turns out it was... 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    why are flame arrestors so dang expensive? I'd use my 4.3 one, but it's cracked (casualty of removing it), and all I've found for under $50 is a 5.0 merc one from a fella i know with tons of parts laying around........ tons of parts except for flame arrestors... I can't even find an engine cowl/cover piece, which is one of those things boaters usually toss the first time they have to do anything to the engine... it's somewhat important to me because the USCG will stop and inspect at least three or four times a season, and twice I've had them pull the engine cover looking specifically for that... 
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the engine is resting on the stringer blocks, being supported by a couple 2x4 blocks I cut to size... the friggin motor mounts that came with it are frozen as can be.. I got the top nut loose easy enough, but can't budge the bottom one... took it out and lagged it to a beam so I could put some serious pressure on it- even liquid wrench and heated the hades out of it... neither will budge... trying to turn it turns the entire pedestal in the seat... twists the bushing... 

    new mounts ordered... a week out... next friday they are supposed to land... another freakin' week... 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I suck with the pictures, fellas, apologies... 

    Spent all afternoon aligning the engine... it's a pain, as it turns out, doing it by yourself... in the boat, out the boat, in the boat, out the boat.... drink beer.... in the boat... grrrrr... Whoever suggested to have both sides dead level at all times is stupid... the port side of the block is about a thread and a half higher than the starboard side, but the greased end of an alignment bar doesn't lie- it's aligned... equal depth and patterned spline marks in the grease all the way around the bar- and followed with a celebratory three beers...

    I'm down to putting batteries and exhaust elbows on- and going through and making sure all clamps are tight... replacing bellows, slapping the outdrive on, checking fluids, hooking up the hose and turning the key... 

    question- maybe one for MT or Al:  does the stern hose connection intended for flushing provide water to the cooling system too?  it looks like it does, but I don't know that for certain... I'm asking because I'm considering hooking it up there before i slap the outdrive on and seeing if the engine fires... I'd hate to go through all this motion just to find the engine doesn't want to run... it would be much easier to work on in a stand than in the boat... 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mr. D.....pictures if available, for we nosey boaters.
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    I'm terrible at documentation. But I have a 60mph (58.9 to be exact) boat, now... I can hit 5450rpm, so I could reprop and go even faster, but melikes the hole shot too much... I'll stay off the throttle instead.. 

    the thing got it's wakeboard tower and toneu... it looks really nice, but now it needs it's cleaning... there are greasy fingerprints all over it... I've got some wiring to do- making the neutral cut off permenant instead of pigtailed and taped- I just needed to make sure I did the right thing... I did.. I now need to clean up the harness.  

    I had to use a throttle cable bracket from Summit- one of those show pieces all polished aluminum.. it looks out of place on the engine, but hey- it was $12... works flawlessly, but has a slight angle from the mechanism to the cable hold... maybe I'll fix it, maybe not.. 

    I've got to get a new battery box- I want to add some room in the hold to store beach chairs and such... 

    it runs super smooth, and when it's on plain that exhaust tube as opposed to exhaust bellow really sounds nice... 

    once she's clean I'll post up some pics... 

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