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To troll or not to troll

chamberbchamberb Member Posts: 265 ✭✭✭
This weekend I will be fishing for three days in the LCI fishing derby. Never trolled in a boat this size. Any concerns other than keeping a close eye on oil pressure and my temperature gauge when trolling with a 350 mag B3? Maybe a good question for @MarkB

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    MarkBMarkB Member Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's pretty normal for big boats to troll in the great lakes at idle ... many, many +30 footers that go to one engine and idle to get down to a preferred 2.5 mph for salmon fishing.

    I've never really had any issues trolling for extended hours on the boat. Some say the alternator doesn't really kick in until 1500 rpm, but I've found my batteries hold voltage (13.7V), and I'm going 600 rpm, so I'm pretty sure the alternator is working.

    Temps don't seem to be an issue, and neither is oil pressure.

    I really don't think you have to worry about anything, there's thousands of hours being put on engines in this mode every weekend. I'm sure an hour at 600 RPM is much less wear and tear than an hour at 4000 rpm.

    What lake is the fishing derby on, and what fish species are you going after? The thing you'll have to worry about is getting down to appropriate trolling speed, with most going to fast at idle, especially with a tail wind.

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Boat + Water = Fun"

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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with Mark, no harm to the engines. If you want to go slower you can buy attachments that do on your drive but I hate those. Instead if you can not get down to the trolling speed you want because of your idle setting you can purchase a drogues (different sizes)which area canvas bag that goes into the water and drags on a line behind your boat....that will drop your speed. I have seen guys rig a plastic pail with a float and some holes in it that worked perfectly.

    You might get a kick out of this. Rinker will rig the EC 360 as a killer fishing machine with bait and fish lockers and prep stations. I did not order that model but my 2014 EC 360 with twin 502 Magnums came with a variable TROLL setting. Can you imagine that..... twin 502s at TROLL....too cool eh?

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    MarkBMarkB Member Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes MT is correct. Most guys will put trolling bags (1 or more) in the water, on the side of their boat. The bags are normally a few feet up from the stern so as not to get in the way of your fishing lines. They are cone shaped, about 36" in diameter at the throat, and go to a point at the tail. They tie off on the front rub rail and the tail also has a rope attached (need this for retreaving it, as you can't pull it via the front, too much drag).  Amish bags makes some good bags.

    As MT says, a lot of guys do the same by simply using a 5 gallon pail and tying this off to the rail or cleat.

    Some put on a drag plate on their drive. It has a plate that folds down behind the prop, to stall the force. I don't like those for many reasons ... 1) you lose steering without prop thrust, 2) you have to attach them through your drives and have stainless to aluminum touching, and that introduces galvanic corrosion, 3) if you forget the plate in the down position and hit the gas to go back to shore, you'll damage everything!  Plus they'll be about impossible to reach with an I/O to drop and lift that stall plate.

    I'm willing to bet you'll get down to around 3 mph at idle, and no less, so this will likely be an issue.  2.5 mph is what you need for salmon and trout. 1.5 mph is what you need for Walleye/Pickerel.

    You may want to consider the bucket, unless ... can you control troll speed? Do you have smart craft or similar? My smart craft has a troll control mode, and allows me to set the rpm down to 500 RPM and increase in increments of 10 rpm.  This is like speed control, but going down to 500 rpm, I can get my speed down to 2.2 mph.

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Boat + Water = Fun"

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    F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    I down rig with my 300 fiesta vee, I have scotty electrics with 60" booms. I troll for hours. I shut down the engine with no power steering, and just run one engine. I can adjust the speed with the trim tabs. I can vary the troll speed from 2.8mpg to 1.8mph using the trim tabs.

    I have also adjusted the idle speed up from stock settings as well, it idles at 800rpm now. The stock Idle seemed to low and would stall out after a few hours. The stock idle was at 700 or so based on the RPM gauge.

    Its easy to adjust, pop open the engine cover take a screw driver and adjust the idle screw. I had to play with it a few times to get the correct idle for trolling MPH, and so that it was not too fast for engaging the gears. And not to slow so that it would stall out.




    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
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    F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    TROLL PLATES SUCK!!! used them on several fishing boats.. and eventually you will mess up, or the plate will not come up or wont go down, and when you hit the gas the plate gets bent all to ****. Been there done that..
    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
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    F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    Lake trout seem to like 1.9-2.5 mph or so in that range
    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMO @f1100 got two out of three right. Not bad! Depending on your engine be careful about fooling around with the engine idle speed. First, as Mark and I have shown you do not need to adjust your idle speed to troll properly. Second on new engines you will 100% void your warranty by doing that. Third, on the newest engines you will screw-up your entire engine management system by fooling around with your idle settings. On older style engines maybe scr*wing around with your idle is okay but don't do it with the newer ones as the functions are too interlinked. Anyway, it's not necessary.
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    F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    Well if you want to mess around with water brakes then I guess cool. I dont want any more ropes or things in the water when I am fishing. I have a used boat with no warrenty. And they are carbed v8s with no throttle position sensors or electronics. So adjusting the idle is easy and SAFE


    That being said on any EFI engine you can still adjust the idle with the idle screw if the engine has a throttle plate design. All it does is press on the throttle plate just like your throttle would, there are no issues with doing this. All our race car LS6 v8s which are vastly more advanced than the boat engines can be adjusted for idle manually. With no ill effects to the EFI control system.

    Adjusting your idle on EFI engines that have a throttle plate with manual adjust will not mess anything up. Your not adjusting mixture its a mechanical adjustment that slightly adjusts the throttle. Some newer EFI systems have a digital stepper motor design that cannot be manually adjusted, so with these systems you are SOL. AKA drive by wire engines.

    I think you are over cautious and promoting some false Ideas with engines.

    depending on the EFI either MAP or MAF design, they all compensate for engine control regardless of what the idle is at. If you wanted you could set the idle at 2000rpm if you so desire. The engine would run as it should at the 2000rpm level, with correct fuel as being metered by the MAF, or pressure in the case of MAP.

    Adjusting the idle is a VERY easy way to get the correct troll speed, if you cant compensate with your trim tabs. And without having to deploy water brakes.

    Now IF you have to adjust your idle LOWER..then you will run into issues if you lower it to the point the engine is stalling out. In my case however I had to raise the RPM to get the desired troll speed for my boat.
    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
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    chamberbchamberb Member Posts: 265 ✭✭✭
    Thanks so much to everybody!!! I am fishing in Lake Champlain alternating between Northern Pike and Lake Trout. I'll not have time to buy the drogues for this trip, but I will do some research. I will know by tomorrow how slow I can go and will definitely try the trim tabs too. Mostly reassuring to know I can try a few things with no worries to the motor. Thanks again!! I'll post any prizes Monday night ;)
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A thought about part of the discussion-I don't even have a fishing license but the idea of throwing out something out to slow down the boat I had thought about with a different scenario- if you broke down on the water and the weather turned bad, could you throw out some sort of similar device to keep the bow into the waves? Maybe for you guys with the bigger boats would take such a large "one" it would not be practical but perhaps on the 270 like mine....or is this already a safety device?  
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    chamberbchamberb Member Posts: 265 ✭✭✭
    Interesting idea!! I wonder if you would need one on both sides of the bow or it would turn you broadside..... Any engineers out there? 
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would think you could throw one on either side of the boat as long as they are the same spot either side. I'm thinking something more like a parachute that would fold up pretty small but would fill with water and act like a sail. I would think that the water/waves would move faster than the boat and would keep the boat into the waves....
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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    This is the subject of "sea anchors."  I have one aboard.  If you are powerless and you are drifting, the sea anchor will stabilize things and slow down the wind driven travel of the vessel.  West Marine has them.
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    chamberbchamberb Member Posts: 265 ✭✭✭
    Excellent info!! Good thought rasbury, you were right. 
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dang, thought I was going to be rich!
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    MarkBMarkB Member Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ras. Yes this is another reason why fishing guys use trolling bags. You need one on either side for it to work but they anchor your boat so you don't get tossed around as much ineeded high seas.

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Boat + Water = Fun"

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I must have seen that somewhere, I'm sure not smart enough to come up with that on my own!
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