Batteries... Again

Michael T

So, some very interested conversations regarding preferred type of battery chemistry the riggers here in Florida, I spoke with, prefer. Have been by several really big MARINE outfits while driving the Admiral around. Here's what the trend seems to be: forget flooded deep cycle batteries as toyallu yezterdaus news.....too heavy, too weak, too slow to re-charge, too few re-charges, too low a voltage and too heavy. One rigger said they're special order now as we consider them crap. So I asked what chemistries and models do you guys like?Im.....I think I got it right: Gel OK with great number ofre-charge cycles but poor re charge times, too heavy and AHs too low as we're their CCA and MCA. Liked AGMs for supervisor AHs re charge speed and CCA and MCA . I fact they are now moving into TPPL AGMs for even more superiority in every way. Sort of what I said in an rarlier post.....would be coming.  But.....even I was surprised to see the number of MARINE Lithium-Ion batteries  going into new cruisers and fishing boats. I was told 5 x longer life, 5x faster charging, 66% less weight, higher voltages available and better CCAs/MCAs and the AHS
s is waaay superior!
Q1
If I were buying now I would be happy with a Series 31 AGM, better yet a TPPL Series 31 AGM or maybe even a new MARINE Lithium-Ion........new Mercruiser smart phone engine data links.... New battery technology...... For some boaters...the times they are a-
changing?

Well that's my latest report on new trends from  Florida......stay tuned for more! MT

craigswardmtb

The problem with Lithium is cost.  Our 12v 50 amp hour lithium iron phosphate batteries that we put in our technology carts will set you back over $700 a battery and you will need quite a few of them in a marine application...

212rowboat

AGM's are getting there... they're close... but they are still inferior to good ol' lead acid 6v banks in series and parallel for quad the AH in every aspect but weight and of gassing... given the off gassing is concerning. 

LaRea

Li-ion?  What kinds of craft are they outfitting?  

Michael T

@LaRea, I mostly saw a ton of series 31 AGMs, which were going into everything as the guys said flooded cells just didn't come close to any of the series 31 AGMs. I was told the lithium ions I saw were destined for an install in a big sport Fisher. I'd say it was over 50' The boxes said Marine Series 31 - 36 volt.

I was at another marina this morning and heard the same thing.....flooded for small bowriders and or guys with limited finfs. Maybe gel for cruisers but the techs recommended AGMs. For cruisers over 40' or guys who anchor out a lot or use inverters ......TPPLs. 

Not looking for an argument, just passing along things I see/hear (like the Mercruiser Smart Craft app) that I think the guys here on this forum will like. 

Don't post much anymore, just comment if I have dealt with the issue myself or think someone is about to step on a land mine.

Just friendly advice from an old geezer that anyone is welcome to ignore :-)

Gotta go, the Admiral wants to do some shopping! Fantastic weather here at Estero Beach 95 degrees with 87% humidity - MYkind of weather!!!!!.... Walk on the beach, swim in the pool and a sore neck from trying to look at every boat on the water, in guys' driveways and then there's the marinas...... BIG smile on that one!

212rowboat

i surely am not trying to argue either, MT... not at all... 

one of my projects was R&D and now fielding of multi million dollar systems for the armed forces that require 12v service (dc exclusively; even shore power is inverted prior to touching the system)... a few thousand dollars isn't going to make or break it, but the systems faulting while they're needed will-  with a certainty and in a heartbeat...

money ain't got nuthin' to do with it.  performance has everything to do with it.  I'd love to seem more in tune with technological advancement and up-sell by tossing around 'AGM' or 'Gel Cell', but it would be proven to cut sharply into performance, and that ain't gonna happen.  

IF the flooded 6v true deep cycles are MAINTAINED properly, the AGM's are second for a 12v or 24v configuration.  that is to say the plates or any portion of them are never dry, and the battery never drops below 50% capacity... now- AGM's can handle down to 30% before damage occurs, and if that is something expected, then maybe AGMs are worth another look. If weight is more important, AGM is the way to go.  

Dream_Inn

I figure I'll be looking at the TPPL's this winter (actually buy around March).  I've had 5 summers on my current batteries and figuring it is about time next year.  Again, these are some Walmart deep cycles and I have always been happy with such.  But, if that fast charging is really true with TPPLs, I'd like to have that (unless I start liking runny my genny at night - oh man, that better not really happen).  So MT, I'll be asking you to find me the best deal on two of the TPPLs after the new year!

J3ff

so here's the question. I've now got two weeks to figure out the best deep cycle batteries to outfit the boat with.

After looking all over the internet, this one appears to be the absolute BEST bang for the buck. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Nautilus-31-Deep-Cycle-Marine-Battery-31MDC/205309650

They have a very comparable cca and Reserve time out of ALL of them that I have found so far in Group 31 size for half the price of a gel or AGM

Can you beat that ?? 

Dream_Inn

Jeff, battery looks like it'd probably work well for your application, even mine.  That's about what I paid for mine 5 years ago at Walmart.  I'll have to do some serious research this winter for my next ones. 

craigswardmtb

I would go with the Sams Club Duracell AGM. I have yet to find anything that competes on price. There are some older threads on here discussing the details. I have two for three seasons and they're great so far. 

J3ff

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-agm-deep-cycle-marine-and-rv-battery-group-size-31dtmagm/prod3590232.ip

less reserve capacity and 70 bucks more each.. homedepot battery still wins.. 

skennelly

@J3ff  - How do you buy the home Depot battery?  HD product questions make it sound impossible.

J3ff

Seems like it's pickup only and only certain stores have them, I'm in the North East and it seems that most stores have them near me.. 

212rowboat

four of these... = $400ish.... 

you'd be even better to find some Trojan 6v in the same size (GC2). 

@20a they're rated @ 230 hours.... you'd be running 4 of them in about the same footprint and weight as 2 group 31 batteries.   the combined rating @12vdc with two sets of series batteries combined in one parallel bank is 460 hours, and so long as you keep the plates wet and never discharge below 50% will last you a long time.... unlike anything called 'group 31', these are true deep cycle/cell batteries and will work as good and as long as anything you can put in there.  

these are intended for house batteries... not for cranking duties... 

craigswardmtb

It's all relative to what you value. AGMs will typically last longer as they have a greater tolerance for depth of discharge; is more resistant to plate degradation due to vibration, and will not outgas.