Should I take winterizing or pay to have it done?

califco

Im thinking on doing the winterizing myself this year. I have a 2004 312, two 350 mag MPI horizon closed cooling engines. Generator, AC, water heater and fresh water. I believe the close cooling system is taking water, the color of the fluid is clear, I'm planning on buying a test to check the fluid inside the heat exchanger this weekend. I'm looking for advice on what should I take in consideration, or what system is the best to properly winterize my engines.  The link at the end has a lot of information that looks like a good check list to follow. Am a little concern on the procedure to complete the engines. The manual suggest to disconnect hoses and pour antifreeze while videos online show a process using a bucket full of antifreeze that gets in the system while the engine is running, which process should I follow? Also there is the option to fog the carburetor or fill half way the fuel filter with oil which one is the proper technique for my type of engine? 

I know; it is still hot out but I want to prepare and see if I can save some $$$ while learning more about my boat. 

Thanks in advance 


http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/60302-winterizing-full-way.html

randy56

@califco just read the link on winterizing, it is a very good list of things to do, refer back to your owners manual. There is a section on winterizing. as he was general and there may be something missed that you engine's has, not mentioned.
You can purchase a winterize bucket at most marine places on line or at marine store/boat shop, to put 5 gallons of antifreeze with hose's and accessories. You can use it for both engine's and genny. 
I'm not sure of your background, have you ever done it before, is this your first boat, or abilities on working on things. So here is a reminder, water gets very hard in the state of Michigan.  There has been many that have tried it, there self and ended buying new blocks in the spring. Trying to save money. Not trying to scare you just reminder. You can do it your self. I've done my boats for 35 years. 
As far as fog vs filling filter, I've never heard of putting oil in the fuel filter. A first for me. 
Good luck

06Rinker270

I was told that if you winterize yourself, and something goes wrong, insurance won't cover. 

I had the Marina I purchased the boat at winterize everything.  Long story short I hydrolocked due to a cracked manifold. Insurance blamed winterization and I was covered.  Only lost a manifolds and riser but could have been worse.

New engine vs yearly winterization.  Until I'm confident, it's worth the money.  

Dream_Inn

Being that you have closed cooling, your winterization is actually really easy.  Do you have the manual pump (little blue pump)?  Is there a small Schrader valve with small air tubes that go to your sea water pump?  If so, your winterization process is even easier, or less prone to doing it wrong.  When I do my engines (I have a whole document I made up that I follow step by step for my entire boat), I warm them up a bit first running on a hose with muffs on the drives.  Then I use the manual pump and push all the water out of the heat exchanger/risers/manifolds.  Then I restart with pink stuff flowing thru.  Again, with fresh water cooled (antifreeze and heat exchanger), it is much simpler because you do not have to warm up and be concerned whether the thermostat is open.

Now, as far as water system, I connect an air compressor (to 40 psi) on the city water connection and blow everything out first and have a bypass on my water heater (and just let that drain out). Once all lines are clear, then I remove hose from fresh water tank and pump pink in.  Need to make sure fresh water is empty first, also need to make sure head is empty.  Make sure to put pink thru entire systems from the seacock (for air conditioner and head and generator). 

I agree with Patrick that your insurance won't cover if you do it yourself.  I've been doing my own for 16 years & always very cautious following my steps one by one.

Oh, with MPI you probably don't want to fog.  It may screw up your MAP sensor.

FWIW, my prior boat was a 2002 310 (basically the same as yours).  Great boat with easy access to everything except the water heater.  Speaking of that, make sure after you drain the water heater that you remove the water in the mid-cabin bilge (that's where it drains).

Liberty44140

@califco thanks for starting this thread and @Dream_Inn I'm loving your comments as I've been wrestling with whether or not to pay to have my 350 MPI closed cooling horizons winterized or DIY this year. I've never winterized mercruisers but I figure if I can change the fuel pump and anti-diesel solenoid on my 5E generator and fog the throttle bodies and cylinders on my V6 outboard I should be able to do it! 

Dream - I have the shrader, but no hand pump. Seems that everyone with FWC here on the lakes seems to misplace the hand pump. Looks to me like my hand held bicycle pump is the same darn thing. Do you know if it is? Do you drain the sea water out of the blue plugs? Do you drain the anti freeze out of the blue plugs after you run it through?

Lastly - do you do any fogging (spray or hook up external tank with oil/gas cocktail)? I've read mixed reviews on whether or not MPI's need to be fogged in some way.

THANKS

06Rinker270

My tech does fog my MPI.  @Dream_Inn how will it harm the MAP sensor?

Dream_Inn

Liberty, sounds to me you are quite capable to do it yourself, but realize it is your own risk if something is not done right.  I would believe a bike hand pump would work.  All it does it put enough pressure to open up a valve in the seawater pump.  Real important, you need to pull the little relief valve next to the shrader when the water is done running out.  This allows pressure relief to close the valve on your seawater pump.  If it does not close, your seawater pump will leak and when you run pink stuff in it will just come out of the bottom of the pump.  I do drain the blue plugs on the seawater pump as well just as a precaution.  This helps drain the line going to the engine and more importantly the line to the outdrive (which the hand pump does not do).  I do not drain the antifreeze afterwards.  I leave it in the engine as protection, both from freeze and corrosion.

Lastly, I do not fog.  I have not done so since my first boat ('99 - '05).  My 310 was MPI and I did not want to screw it up.  I don't do my current engine as well.  I figure a couple months in the winter isn't going to hurt sitting.

I believe my winterization/spring checklist is in the library as well.  It's good to use as a reference.  I have in MS word and can send it if you PM me with an email.

Dream_Inn

Patrick, supposedly it can clog the sensor.

randy56

Liberty, I do not fog either, never have.

MDboater

@Dream_Inn:  If you are concerned about the MAP sensor, (other than the added work) why not pull the plugs and fog the cylinders directly?

@califco:  Did you see the liboatersclub videos on youtube?  The mechanic works on a 320 Fiesta Vee with 5.0 Liter MPIs.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxpqmT1S3c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc69rxFM_d4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P8Qh9Idc7c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fClG_Zy10vo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDV1KFgwEKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuJUFqpGdaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeEoW6ofJ28

I'm by no means an expert, but Eddie's procedures seem reasonable.  Interested to hear if others think differently.

06Rinker270

I have seen all his videos 

Dream_Inn

MD, I've not had reason that the extra effort is needed.  I put the boat away in November and back out the first week in March. Not really that much time sitting.  Great videos.

Liberty44140

Thanks for the info guys. Dream I appreciate the info on the water side, very helpful. With regard to fogging, my boat will sit for a full 6 months without starting. Randy I see you are farther north like I am, does your boat usually go 6 months not fogged without starting?

randy56

I'm south of you, southern Indiana, maybe 5 months, I boat up to first/second week in November,  Mid  April , I'm summarizing getting and gettin her ready.  had 14 different boats never fogged any, and no problems. always used stabil, 

Handymans342

Randy, if you had diesels you wouldnt have to winterize. Just sayin LOLOL

Cableguy Greg

I don't fog my 6.2MAG. I just run antifreeze thru the engine.

LaRea

Dream_Inn said:

... Do you have the manual pump (little blue pump)?  Is there a small Schrader valve with small air tubes that go to your sea water pump?  ...

If you start pumping air and no water drains out of the water pump, the air hoses are not connected.  There are two small-diameter (1/4") plastic air hoses.  Just press the hose onto the fitting.  

Bayrunner

Here is a some You Tube videos I watch and helped me my first time winterizing mine.  https://www.youtube.com/user/liboatersclub  

Michael T

You can easily winterize it yourself. Your insurance will likely not cover any damages related to the winterization process but if you do it right you won't need insurance. I'd make sure when flushing any AC, generator, sinks etc that there is a good stream of AF running out of the through hulls.

califco

Thanks all for the valuable input, based on the comments here and to have peace of mind I will get the marina to winterize my boat this year. I will stick to replacing the oil, filters (oil and fuel), impellers and tune up of the engines and generator. I will try to watch the technician and maybe take this task next year, more than saving money I enjoy working on the boat. 

Few winter/ spring projects I have have in mind:
geal coat and fiberglass repair (took me time to learn how to dock)

oxidation removal from the blue gealcoat (start with Reel Shine Restructure 1000 to 1200,  follow with Menzerna medium cut polish 2400, and finish with Meguiar's flagship wax ) I will start a new thread and show before and after pictures, still need to do more homework on proper gealcoat repair. I'm mechanically inclined but my background is electrical so when attacking these projects I'm very cautious and do a lot of research. 

Lastly; I'm planning on creating a NEMA 2K network,
I will also would like to integrate a PLC  Allend Bradley to the network and possibly control all functions currently handled by switches using a small Panelview (finally a project that matches my skills) the NEMA 2K is compatible with Devicenet so I will use a scanner card to request and read packages from NAV tools, engine and sensors. 

Dream_Inn

Califco, sounds like we have similar backgrounds.  Please take pictures of that PLC project.  Definitely sounds very cool!

raybo3

You want to add a PLC to your boat? Sounds interesting. You doing this to avoid the switches at the helm?   

Michael T

Sounds like a post for the custom up-grades section of the forum so everyone can see the pictures!

wendyheath

Hi there, you can winterize it yourself. Last spring when my friend was moved to his new house with help of movers nyc who provided him moving and  winterizing service.

LaRea

The PLC idea definitely deserves a separate thread!  

raybo3

IMO a plc on a boat is not really a good idea because most people do not know what a plc is. I think it is just a little over kill for a boat......... Just say'n.

J3ff

what does a PLC do? googling didn't reveal much. 

raybo3

You write a program and give it an "input" and you get an "output". You can add timers and other cool stuff. Very expensive 

raybo3

BTW plc stands for...... Programmable Logic Controller....... 

Dream_Inn

I remember playing with PLC's back in my college days.  Definitely great stuff, but I agree a bit expensive for our boats.....but, for the larger ones, very cool!  Maybe my next boat!