2004 270 Chasing down leaks.. time to give up and re-run all fresh water lines to the cabin

J3ff

Is this a crazy job to take on?  Hoping to get this done before end of May.. at this point all I know is that even after finding a pretty substantial leak in the bathroom, the pump still cycles on every 40 mins and has to build pressure for at least 30 seconds before it shuts off. 

Keep in mind I've had problems with water in the rear bilge as of last year, this year I haven't used the fresh water system till today and my rear bilge has been completely dry.  Makes me think that even though the boat was marina maintained, somewhere in there it wasn't winterized correctly and I may be chasing down multiple leaks in the system.. 

Has anyone done this and maybe has some advice to offer? 

Thanks in advance.. 

Cableguy Greg

The pipes are made of PEX, which they should have some expansion and contraction to them. The fittings are "flair it" fittings, which could be where your problems are at. I could see the fittings going bad before the piping itself. No matter what, it is a PITA to change the fittings and/or all of the piping. If it was me, I would start with the fittings.

J3ff

Thanks, what's weird is that the carpet is wet, but the pipes aren't on the Port side.. an Idea - what about capping off all connections to the cabin. How hard would that be? Just for diagnosing the problem... still could be the window. 

J3ff

So then I read this one, which mentions the rub rail... I think maybe I'll start with trying to figure out how to cap off the downstairs sinks, see what happens, if everything ends up dry, great, figured it out and will have to go about finding it.

If not fixed, then obviously I'm looking in the wrong places.. 

Handymans342

All the water in my midbilge comes from the anchor locker

rasbury

If i use my shower the carpet sometimes gets wet?

Handymans342

That's your sump pump

J3ff

After thinking about it for few minutes I figured since the hot water heater doesn't work and isn't really hooked into the motor I might as well go ahead and easily eliminate 50% of the possible tubes that could be leaking. 

So I picked the easiest replaceable part and severed the connection.  



If this does not solve the problem, I guess the next move is hot water heater out and then capping off the lines that go down to the cabin. Right? Anyone think that's a bad plan? 

J3ff

so it's been 40+ minutes since I cut off the hot water lines and the pump has not cycled on once and the water has not returned to the mid bilge..  a good sign, not ready to call it a win yet, will be back tomorrow to check, if the hot water lines/fittings are the problem, well.........better get winter 2017 list started I guess... cold showers are fine vs having to wrench on it during boat days. 

The main difference I can see which might adversely effect the pump is that it's apparent that it doesn't build up any pressure because the pump now turns on instantly when using water and off right away when you turn off the water.  My previous boat had a small expansion chamber....is it bad to run a pump with little to no space in the system for pressure to build? 

Well.. there still seems to be a tiny amount of water flowing from somewhere.. next move will be to remove the hot water heater and trash it. 

Then thinking it might be good to put two of these in the lines to the cabin, one for the bathroom cold, one for the sink cold ( http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-2-in-Brass-Push-to-Connect-Ball-Valve-22222-0000LF/202270642 ) and then ultimately when the hot water heater gets replaced and hooked back in, will put one there too.. 

Gotta love boats! 

J3ff

Sorry to bump this again. I've googled it but can't find it. Does anyone have a digram of where the fresh water hoses go/are routed in this boat?  I can't really tell without ripping everything apart...  

Are there two lines that go forward on both sides? or is there just a hot water and cold water going forward on the PORT side and then it "t's off" somewhere?? 

After thinking about where the water is coming from, it would seem to only make sense if the lines come up the port side and then T off somewhere and go to the stbd side somewhere forward of the mid bilge (I'm seeing water moving from both sides).. 

Lake_Bum

Do you leave your water pump on all the time?  I ask because, I've owned many boats, and RV's over the years, and I almost never leave mine on. Bad things can happen if a leak does pop up, as you have sort of experienced already. I make it a habit, and the whole family's to flick the water pump switch on, ONLY when needed.  I know that doesn't fix anything, but it's a good habit to avoid problems with 

howardrams

J3ff - My thoughts are that it is not a crazy project but I would only replace pipes and redo fittings which seem cracked or don't just need tightened a bit.  I winterized my old Fiesta Vee for 22 years, and my new one for 3 and have never had a leak to any sinks, head, or shower nozzles.  Yes, someone may have not winterized your water system adequately and freezing may have caused your problem.

I agree that getting rid of your broken and probably corroded hot water heater is a good starting point.  Can't say how they routed the hoses at the factory, but the T's and elbows are probably under the various sinks, near your shower sump, and in the engine compartment.  Still a pain to crawl around and inspect/replace, so maybe drain the system and blow out all the water with compressed air (low pressure, like 15 psi) to make sure your leaks are truly coming from the fresh water system.

Here's the routing of a typical system from Rinker.  I notice the water tank is not where mine is.  Mine is in the engine compartment.

Good luck.

J3ff

thanks, I saw that in my owners manual too, but it doesn't represent this boat.. so I'm back down here trying to fix it..  first question:

- does anyone know how to remove these things so I can pull panels down? 



now there isn't much water, but my carpet is now wet in places I don't remember..specifically here:



So the closest source seems to be the shower drain... right? but I haven't really used that much.. however here's the other side and the white tube is the shower drain.. 



Also keep in mind that this is where the leak from the hotwater bathroom hose was coming through, but as you see earlier, that's capped off for now both in the bathroom and the supply is cut off at the heater.. 

Took the fridge out and there was no water behind it..pulled the cold water to the galley sink out as much as I can, capped it off and pressurized the system, there does not appear to be any leaks.  So I'm thinking I'm fighting two things. 

Some kind of Rain/window/thru hull sink drain leak on the Port side and some kind of weird leak from parts unknown on the stbd side. 

Ordered a boroscope to try and figure it out.. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WRNGYXY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lake_Bum

Those white caps, are just snapped on over a screw head. Carefully pry them with a screwdriver and you'll find the Phillips screw beneath it. 

J3ff

Lake_Bum said:

Those white caps, are just snapped on over a screw head. Carefully pry them with a screwdriver and you'll find the Phillips screw beneath it. 

Thanks, I figured that, but didn't want to go breaking things... is there a special tool or method to do it as to not rip the vinyl behind it? 

Lake_Bum

I used a very small flathead, and just carefully wiggled it loose. They will pop back on pretty easily. I discovered my 232 had a bunch of them when I disassembled things for running led wires everywhere. 

randy56

@J3ff didn't know if you have found your leak yet,  on my windows I found caulking or some type of glazing was deteriorated, re - caulked with 3 M 4000. leak stopped.  

J3ff

I re did one window that seemed to have water under it on the inside... either that wasn't the problem or I did a bad job.. it didn't fix it, water on carpet next time it rained.

So the next thing I did was reseal the cleat and the closest bow rail screws... today was the first rain since, wondering if the carpet is wet right now.. might have to go see tomorrow. 

JohnnyCake

 

I've been tracing leaks also in my FV250 (2006).

There was always some water in the rear bilge. Last winter, I resealed windows (like Randy56) and the rubbing rail and most of the leaks stopped. But still, some water was coming to the bilge.

I opened the transom shower and found that valve was cracked. All the time system was pressurized, there was water coming (picture).
I fixed the valve with 2-component epoxy glue and the rear bilge is now bone dry all the time.

Still, some minor leak to mid bilge that I haven't found yet. It might be shower drain, but it's installed so that it's very difficult to see..