Kohler 5e trouble

Wildboating

I have been reading through all the post for the last two hours but have not seen one that specifically points me in the right direction.

My 5e sometimes (often) upon startup runs a little rough and smokes, I notice the voltage is around 100v at this point then it smoothes out, raises in rpm and produces normal 110v.  At this point the smoke stops and the engine runs very smoothly.   I am now also experiencing the unit shutting down after 20 minutes or so.   Oddly, at my dock it runs for ever when i try testing it to determine why it keeps shutting down.  The last 3 times i was away from dock and needed it it keeps shutting itself off.     Can anyone offer some suggestions?   I put new plugs in the other day, I also pulled and checked the anti dieseing valve which seems to be moving freely.   Where is the inline filter that @Black_Diamond suggest removing?  Any other thoughts, I love to have our genny running when we are out.   Wife loves AC, i love a happy wife.

Black_Diamond

The in-line filter is at the input to the fuel pump. You have to pull the cover off to see it. Not visible from the 'outside'. 

When you run it at the dock, do you have the service panel off the sound cover? (Assuming you have the sound enclosure of course!). Mine will not run long with the whole cover on. I keep the service door off, works perfect. 

Clean the spark arrestor and your sea strainer too. I upgraded my strainer to the Forespar T-150, much larger strainer and I suspect flows better too that the original one. 

craigswardmtb

Sounds like two issues to me. One you likely are overheating if it shuts down after 20 minutes. Youll need to bleed the coolant system using the bleed screw on the manifold. 
Second when you say it runs rough on start up do you mean it surges or simply stumbles. I have come to discover the echoke is very sensitive. You may need to either richen or lean the condition. It's always a good idea to give the carb a good cleaning. Nice and easy to remove. Just remember to buy new gaskets for reinstallation. 

Michael T

I would tend to run slightly rich rather than slightly lean as lean can exacerbate overheating.

Wildboating

Thanks everyone.    

I will pull the cover off and find that in-line filter, remove and replace with the barbed fitting.  Do you know off top of your head what size barb i need?

When I tested it at the dock I did have the entire enclosure off, I just replaced plugs and worked on the ADS.  It ran forever without as much as a hicccup.  The second time I went to test it after the first time it shut down it had the full enclosure on.  It ran fine that test day, though I think i may of forgotten to apply a decent load (ac on) to it as i stood outside listening to the exhaust port.  I will test mine with the service door off, I had not considered it may just need some more air.

Is the sea strainer the unit that comes from the center bilge in the middle of the boat?  I have one there that appears to run to the Genny.   I will check out the spark arrestor, Is this under the top cover?


I will pickup a new gasket set, take off the carb and do a good cleaning.

craigswardmtb

Yes it's under the plastic enclosure that the coolant reservoir is attached too. 4 bolts to remove the plastic enclosure and 3 screws for the spark arrestor. 

Wildboating

****, just had the cover off to take the ADS off.   I hate doing things twice, but thanks for letting me know.  I have not done anything with it yet.

Liberty44140

Interesting that you mentioned that your genny usually bogs and smokes at start up and smooths out. Historically mine was taking a while to start and would then hunt for 15 sec before smoothing so I had a tech replace the entire choke assembly last week. He is having trouble dialing the choke in right, right now when I cold start it fires right up but boggs for a couple of minutes and then smooths. He said that is too long and he will keep adjusting the choke this week to get it right but he said that 15 - 30 sec of bogging at cold start is normal unless I want to make it too lean and take forever to start cold again. Sounds like the adjustments are just very hard to dial in. Crazy how sensitive these things are!

Wildboating

Hmm,   Maybe that rough start is part of the echoke doing its job.   It definetley is a bluish color, but it only does it upon start up.  Once the unit raises rpm's the smoke stops.

craigswardmtb

Do you have good water flow? Mine smokes very little unless it's got bad water flow or I'm running seafoam thru it. 
Other things I have noticed. If you run too rich it bogs down at startup and can stall. Also it tends to leave nasty black staining on the side of the boat. Not sure why. If you run too lean it surges. My best tuning so far has gotten me to one or two surges at startup and then it goes to a pretty smooth idle. Mind you this is with a brand new carb, ADS, and echoke heater. 

This weekend it tan ran great except when I sucked up seaweed and disintegrated my impeller. It's always something with these things. 

Liberty44140

I've got great water flow (sorry didnt mean to hijack Wilds post but I saw the similarity). No temp issues (knock on wood) and I have a brand new ADS. Old one was very clean but since I bought a new one just in case I went ahead and put it in. Hoping the tech can dial it in, he is not charging me labor for final adjustments. In reading your stuff, Craig and Wild, some of BD's posts and posts on other sites a small amount of surging or bogging is normal cold (like when you first start a blower or lawn mower and then flip the choke to smooth). I cant decide if I should tell the tech to error on the lean side or the rich side. Sounds like Craig's is on the lean side. My tech seems to prefer the rich side so thats probably what we will do. Plugs were brand new this year but since it was so rich that it backfired a few weeks ago I am wondering if I should do plugs again.... thx

Wildboating

I would guess mine is on the rich side to, based on the amount of staining I get under the exhuast port.

Wildboating

Liberty, feel free to ask away as well.  There is no need for an individual post for similar problems and equipment

reneechris14

Looks like I have my work cut out for me,I also have some of the same issues,I'll start with carb cleaning.mine runs a couple of mins and shuts down.

Black_Diamond

It will shut down quick if air is in the coolant side. 

frodo13056

So, how do you start your generator? It's best to start it with no load (no 110v demand), let it run for 5 minutes or so and then add 110v load one circuit at a time. When I shut mine down, I shed all the 110v load, let it idle down for at least 5 minutes then shut down the generator.
 I also run mine at least 30 minutes every 2-3 weeks in the summer - same method as above: Start the generator, let it run at least 5 minutes, add 110v load one circuit at a time, waiting a few minutes between each load:
1) AC (or heat since I cycle my AC/Heat unit at least once a month in the summer to keep the reversing valve from sticking). Wait a few minutes, then on to the next load.
2) Hot water heater - again waiting a few minutes before adding the next load.
3) Microwave (Add a cup of water and heat it up to cycle the microwave load)
4) Turn on both burners on the stove to HI (use caution here).
5)  Turn on TV's that use 110v 
Run the generator at full load at least 20 minutes - usually 30 minutes.
Shed load one circuit at a time waiting a minute or two between each shed.
Once all 110v loads are off, continue running for at least 5 minutes, 
Shut down generator.
This has worked very well for mine - I bought my 2008 320 new and have been doing this routine since new and have had to replace the raw water impeller three times in 9 (going on 10) seasons. Never changed a filter or plug yet (knock on wood).

Liberty44140

Frodo- I'm on my second season with the boat but I do the same thing. Run every week for 30 min. Scale up load and then scale down load before shut down.
BD- where are you on initial start up? Some surging, hunting or bogging or something while she warms? Less than 30 sec?

craigswardmtb

I think mine is pretty close to being dialed at this point. I may richen it just a tiny bit. If I completely load the system I'll get a little surging. So probably still a bit lean. It's such a fine adjustment. Too much and I get the backfire as well on cold startup. 
I doubt you need new plugs liberty. It's cheap insurance though to take them out of the equation. 

Black_Diamond

Mine starts up pretty smooth. Maybe a bit of hunting while getting going. I run it for a bit before putting a load on it too. No real reason to slowly add loads.  As for shut down, I cut all the loads and let it run maybe a few min before shut down.  Being water cooled, no heat sink to worry as much if it was air cooled and running heavily loaded. 

Michael T

Respectful suggestion - if your generator is not getting much use, run it from time to time BUT - make sure you run it under load. This will work the generator's windings causing them to heat-up, which is good as it removes any moisture from condensation etc. Use it or lose it :-)

Wildboating

Lets be honest when we talk about the load.  To me this is 99.9% of the time the A/C on, battery charger and possibly tv in addition to all the normal DC stuff on.  I would think the A/C is the biggest load producer.  Is it alone enough of a load?  It is normally why we turn it on.

Michael T

@Wildboating, yes, the AC by itself is a great load. Sometimes if we didn't use the generator for a while we would use the microwave or the AC just to run the generator at load to heat the windings.

Dream_Inn

Yep, I generally turn on both AC units.  But also the range or microwave are great loads.  A constant load like AC is good though.

rasbury

Mine is a little hard starting and assume for lack of use but try to cycle it at least once a month....it will hunt for a few seconds and then will smooth out. I have no staining on the hull what so ever and do not ever recall any smoke. Guess that would be choke/fuel mixture.  I did go through mine with new plugs, coolant, filters INCLUDING the fuel water separator which I think was mounted on the firewall/bulkhead. About time to do the filters again at least. Also, when I first purchased would run the 20 and cut off- removed the cover and has run fine since- it is not air wild, it is heat. I don't know that the cover makes that much difference in the sound level or not... 

Wildboating

Thanks guys,  I will be back down there today so we will see.  I will run through the suggestions and see.

Wildboating

Update:  coolant overflow is empty.  I added about a cup of water to the heat exchanger to bring it to full.  Generator has been running for 25 minutes with cover off, its hot to the touch but the overflow bottle is still empty.  I notice a L and H on the bottle.  Should there be more coolant in the unit?   I don't see any leaks but I do notice a slight coolant smell. 

Dream_Inn

You definitely should have coolant in the bottle. It will draw air and then you will have to bleed the system because it will be air locked.

Wildboating

@Dream_Inn. Should coolant be there hot or cold?

Wildboating

45min running, shield off but seems to be staying on longer than usual.  Still nothing in overflow bottle

Dream_Inn

Wildboating said:

@Dream_Inn. Should coolant be there hot or cold?

Yes, at cold there should be about an inch or so.  Also make sure the hose in bottle is all the way in the bottom.

Liberty44140

It's easy to add coolant to the overflow bottle with the sound shield on and service door open, just use a long skinny funnel. Be careful as it fills up quick, I had to sponge some out, I keep it around 60% full when cold which I think is probably too high. Where does it go if the bottle is too high?