additives and other cocktails...

212rowboat

Ethanol is just bad stuff unless it comes out of them there hills in pure form.. it's cost me several builds since it infiltrated the pumps via govt mandate.. if 10 pts isn't bad enough, it will be 15 pts by the end of next year... Grrrrr... For folks with glass and resin tanks, man do I feel sorry for y'all if you're delegated to regular pump gas..

The only way to extract it is a royal PITA... Or.. find a rec gas supplier... Many marinas have rec gas, but they're a might proud of it.. so it goes..

I ran 50 fill ups through a fresh engine using gas from the same rack and station in a 360cid mopar magnum, and then tore the engine down.. I then ran another 50 fill ups through the same engine... That stuff ain't no good, guys.. I had to buy Goodyear manufactured fuel lines with a special interior to negate the effects of ethanol.. I witnessed films and buildups throughout everything it touched.. the fuel pump was a mess.. the previous one lasted over 150k miles and ten years, the other one couldn't maintain consistent pressure only after 30k miles and two years.. injector baskets were clouded, and evidence of the heat generated by alcohol was apparent on valve seats, valve faces, and what was freshly hatched cylinder walls.. anyway:

I found a bottle of starbright startron.. on the advice of another gear head, I had sought it out.. I run it in all gas powered toys I own now, and have seen a big time reduction in buildup as well as drops in temperature and less pinging (i push the envelope likely too much with spark advance).. I swear by it, now..

What are you guys doing to offset the alcohol in your gas? Are there other options just as good as an additive that you know of?

Black_Diamond

Additives or avoid if you can. Most all small engines say zero ethanol. You can thank all your senators from the big corn states for subsidizing ethanol. That industry did take a big hit this year when it lost a multi billion dollar subsidy, but it still gets billions upon billions of wasted money.

nhsd

Since Startron is baically Naptha (with a splash of kerosene according to the MSDS), you can probably buy that in bulk a bit cheaper than bottles of Startron...

212rowboat

Good to know!!!

mvn

One word........ diesel. 

Mark

212rowboat

Diesel has its own problems, which are just as bad.. sulfer being eliminated allows for bacteria growth, which wrecks silly high pressure injection systems (my PSD injects up to 30,000psi)... Plus, the cetane available is only 40, when most engines require 45 to meet warranties.. the fuel systems are ridiculously sensitive.. they are going through what gassers went through in the seventies with catalytic converters and smog pumps..

mvn

Ok,  ok,  I give up!   Pedal power! 

Seriously though, all propulsion systems have their issues.  At least there are ways to mitigate potential problems if you educate yourself. 

Mark

TonyWalker

Marine gas with zero ethanol in it is available all over Florida.  As well as most other states we visited on our loop trip of 2010.  The only state where we had to accept ethanol or park the boat was NY.  That was our experience.

Tony

Salt Shaker 342

212rowboat

there is actually a webpage available that shows who sells and where recreational fuel is available.. So, it's not a huge concern to find it, but it is there..

http://pure-gas.org/

the problem I found is that I don't wanna yank my boat all over the road to find a place, and I don't want to pay marina prices, either... I reckon I'm going to hafta shut up, grin, and do one of those two, though..

that is outstanding information NHSD!!!  I reckon I could have pulled the MSDS or just flipped the bottle around and looked at the ingredients, too... but I didn't.. :-)

Black_Diamond

Diesel is nice until you see the cost in marine applications.

212rowboat

the reason I wouldn't want a diesel (until they work the bugs out) near the water is the 15ppm sulfur content of the fuel at the racks right now.. the 500ppm (#1 or Bio-Diesel) is currently joining Hoffa.. that sulfur is extremely important, as it turns out, to keeping algae and bacteria from growing, and algae and bacteria collect water much faster than even ethanol.. if water infiltrates a 'modern' diesel engine, as in a common rail HPFP engine, lights out for that injector... lights out for that cylinder, and lights out for that motor most likely..

most applications that use marine diesel have massive tanks to support them.. those tanks can't just sit on fuel anymore like they could as recently as five years ago- because of the algae and bacteria- the fuel 'goes bad'... likewise, they can't just top off after every outing to keep condensation from infiltrating the tank- because the fuel stales and grows creatures in it if they don't use it immediately...

I'm all about finding a suitable solution to contaminants and pollutants, but man.. you think the EPA may want to think this through first? maybe?

have any of you folks ever heard of a SIX stroke engine? ... either gas or oil, that is the bombdigity.. it will never reach mass production, because of the climate we've created with EPA/Gov't mandates, and Big Oil covering it's financial ****..

TikiHut2

Rec fuel if I'm trailering or E0 marine fuel is all I use in our 270. My boat mule, 2500Chevy Suburban, gets reg fuel w 10%E and knocks like crazy when accelerating. I've gotta rethink using reg fuel in that one too.

 But as for diesel I recently started filling my JD2155 diesel tractor with normal diesel fuel from the pump (instead of the off-road version with high sulfur content) and my injector pump seals failed within just a few fills. Ouch$$ and back to the off-road red blend.

As for "other cocktails" it was a stout Captain Morgan to recover from that injector pump bill.... (

Glassguy54

Aren't filling stations, by law, supposed to display on the pumps if there is ethanol in any amount? At our local stations we can choose 87 octane unleaded regular, 89 octane w/ 10% ethanol, E85, 85% ethanol for flex fuel vehicles, and 91 octane premium unleaded. Am I to assume that the 87 octane regular and the 91 octane premium have some ethanol content? I was under the impression that those fuels do not contain ethanol.

212rowboat

ALL pump fuel has ethanol, unless it is expressly stated 'recreational fuel'... the rand counts (octane) isn't relative, unfortunately.. anything greater than 10% has to be noted, such as the flex fuel E85.. Some states mandate the notice, others don't... some stations in regions that don't take it upon themselves to be transparent to the customer, which is a good thing..

ethanol is actually more stable than gas.. it's ignition point is better anticipated in terms of temperature and pressure, which allows people to advance spark way higher than plain ol' gas.. it's the temperatures it burns at and the corrosive nature of it that wreaks all the havoc.. it's also that it absorbs water easily, which destabilizes the fuel and accounts for ping-ping-ping detonation which wrecks rods, journals, and pistons.. alcohol doesn't store as much energy as gasoline when it goes boom (or, better said burns really fast) :-) .. but the ability of top fuel engines to press the envelope of spark advance in very tightly compressed cylinders makes it desirable for short runs.. those short runs generally consist of just enough fuel to carry it across the finish- which means the fuel (sometimes externally cooled, which increases its yield) never has an opportunity to collect h20 or to corrode the fuel delivery systems..

if you an me, though, have a tank of 10% on our floaters, and it is in proximity of water, that will collect in short order in the tank.. that isn't a good thing..

Many post '00 car engines account for ethanol.. they have ignition systems that burn hotter (35k+ volts), and fuel lines that can handle the corrosives longer.. the problem (and the beauty) with marine engines is that they generally only implement engines and systems that are VERY well documented- hence, carbs only fell out of favor what, ten years ago on boats?.... the engines found in our rigs may or may not have implemented means to deal with the ethanol.. and even if they have, you can likely only expect 70% of the life, and 85% of the performance out of those engines that they are capable of, or that those running rec fuel exclusively will enjoy..

mvn

I've attached a catalog of the fuel treatments I have used specifically in diesel applications.  I've been using their products for over 10 years in Duramax-equipped trucks with no issues whatsoever.  They also have marine diesel and marine ethanol/gas treatments.

Mark

212rowboat

that is AWESOME information!!! I've never heard of them!! I've been running motorcraft cetane boost+lubricity or dieselkleen cetane+lubricity...

I'm going to order some of that stuff.... I run a powerstroke 6.4... a cab off repair for high pressure pump gives me nightmares... anything that can reduce that threat is definitely my friend!!

mvn

I use the one called Total Power year 'round.

Mark

Glassguy54

Huh - ya learn something new everyday! Or at least you should strive to. So, I should lay in a supply of Startron then? Where do you get it?

212rowboat

wally world has it in the boating section, and a lot of lowes home improvents have it.. west marine has it, and i bet a lot of marine suppliers carry it.. i like the stuff a lot.. 

Madcow

I use SeaFoam in everything I own

Black_Diamond

PRI is great stuff too.

sunrnr33

A product called K-100 very good stuff, I use the K-100 MG which is for long term use. I try to use Ethanol free as much as possible.