Buying through a broker question

Trashman

I've been going back and fourth with a broker about a boat at his marina.  On final offer from him, he stated a price and the seller would pick up the 450.00 bill for putting the boat in the water.  Is this a charge a buyer usually pays? I assumed it was just something taken care of by the broker... especially when the broker is the marina itself.  There was never any mention of this charge in prior conversations.  Very odd.  We are 1000.00 away from a deal and feel this was just a carrot to get me to bite.  Thoughts? 

MarkB

I wouldn't say there's a standard. If the boat is in the yard, winterized, and you buy it like that and take ownership, you'd more than likely have to worry about the cost of putting it in the water next season.

If the boat is dry docked due to maintenance, or for whatever reason ... then I'd ask, have you sea trialed it at all? There's no steadfast rule, it's simply a cost, and part of the negotiation. If he/she is willing to pay for it, then consider it a win for you.

reneechris14

When I bought my 342 I paid for a haul out and power wash because I wanted the boat on the hard to check things out(The drive lube was clean). If it's on the hard and you want a sea trial I would think this would be your cost. The seller is willing to pay if you buy??

Trashman

In my first conversation with the broker we spoke about a sea trial.  He specified that I would give a deposit and if everything was fine during the sea trial we would make the sale, there was never any mention of a cost.  In my opinion, who would buy a boat without driving it, wouldn’t that be part of the brokers commission? Not begrudging him the charge but  I mean really all he did was listed on the Internet and painted the drives according to him.  The boat is in their garage/ show room,  on a dolly.  
Just need to know if this is the norm, because I’m going to need to adjust offers I make if this is the case.  
...I’m beginning to dislike the broker process already

reneechris14

Plus you said you wanted to wait till things settled down. It's only been 3 months right?

Dirtythirty

Mine was a brokerage boat.  The sale was contingent upon a favorable survey and sea trial.  I paid the surveyor directly for the survey and the marina, who was working with the seller and his broker paid for the boat to be launched and then hauled for the inspection.   I think....you will most likely need to express to "the marina" that you are pretty much buying the boat and  don't be surprised if they want to see proof of that.  However, make sure that the contingency is in place so that you aren't holding the leaky bag should your survey or sea trial not go well.  If it's DHBC, I think you will be o.k. I never heard any complaints after the deal was finalized.

Cableguy Greg

I purchased my boat thru a broker as well. My sale was also contingent on a favorable survey and sea trial. The marina where it was stored at had a 1 out in the fall, 1 in in the spring policy. Since it was early in the season, and I had to transport the boat back to Pittsburgh, I had to pay for the haul out.

Trashman

@reneechris14 yes, 3 months, things fell in place at home surprisingly and we are jumping back into boating. Is what it is.  


@Dirtythirty, yes, I’m working with mike and he’s good, I like him.   (We want the boat for sure contingent on a favorable sea trial. Owner is firm on his counteroffer).
 Just took me by surprise through all our conversations he never mentioned the 450 fee to drop it in the water for sea trial.   ...All new to me.   I could see paying the fee for sea trial if The sale fell through on my end (financing fell through/ second thoughts) and I chose to back out.  
I’m looking at 450 at DH and the same when I get 1000ft away at Clark’s, lol

I'm now learning this is sorta the norm so in the future I’ll know. Thanks for all the info.... are there any other broker surprises I may need to know about? Lol

reneechris14

I did not use a broker and when it came time to exchange money it became a little tricky. So there are some benefits with a broker. It's not a $2000 car ,take it back and give me money back thing.

Ian

If it’s on the hard as it is it’s likely wintrrized so a cost to launch and trial now is not unreasonable - either way it’s a redo. But the season is done so the sale should be contingent on spring launch and sea trail and that would not be at your cost, the current owner will need a startup to be able to sell to anyone. 

Liberty44140

I believe that sale related costs, like launching a boat on the hard, are up to the buyer to pay from a "textbook" perspective. If the boat is on the hard at the broker and the broker literally owns the yard and lift then perhaps the broker should not charge. Standard would be buyer pays, when I sold my 310 the buyer paid the costs to have the boat hauled for survey. All that said anything is up for negotiation and you would not at all be out of line for either asking that the seller cover these costs or asking that these costs be refunded to you after sale as a part of the contracts. All they can say is no. 

Trashman

Thanks @Liberty44140, good info. 

LaRea

In boat negotiations, the phrase "usually pays" has no meaning.  The deal is the total deal, including last-minute puts and takes.  

Stodge

Our 342 was from a broker and was on the hard at the beginning of the season.  If there was a charge to put it in the water it was baked into the purchase price.  I paid for the survey and mechanical inspection, but nothing outside that.  They actually moved it from indoor storage to outdoor storage so the mechanical could be done.  Then after everything was finalized (read drama between closing and delivery) we splashed and took her home.  I didn't actually sea trial her.  I trusted the survey and mechanical (which included outdrive service).

Dream_Inn

Right now the advantage is yours.  The seller is looking at having a boat sit for an entire winter, the broker is as well.  Use that to your advantage.  I'd tell them, "l'll wait until spring after you pay to put in water and I don't have to pay for winterizing again".  It's nice to hear you are looking at boats again so soon.  Hope all is well and would love to see the entire family this year at Rinkervous!

davidbrooks

Something doesn't sound right. In my experience the haulout charge is for haulout, powerwash and launch.  So the owner should of already paid the fee. @Trashman Call the marina office and ask them if the haulout fee includes launch.  If so then they are charging you for something already paid.  

Trashman

@davidbrooks. Im thinking the same.   I’m just gonna let the boat sit.  I’m in no rush. I made a good offer.  In two months the boat is a year older on paper and owner will have to pay storage I guess.  The marina is the seller. All they need to do is drop the boat in with the forklift I’ll go out on a sea trial then I hand them a check.  They can leave it tied up until we settle paperwork. Those were my thoughts.   No big deal.  I’ll keep looking, my next boat is out there and now I know a little more on how the brokerage process works. 

MarkB

LaRea said:

In boat negotiations, the phrase "usually pays" has no meaning.  The deal is the total deal, including last-minute puts and takes.  

Agreed. And that's what I was saying above. There aren't any hard rules, it's all a negotiation, and for a successful sale, all of this needs to be achieved:

- buyer must see value.

- seller must see what he/she nets after all the costs is worth it.

- broker (if involved) needs to make a living.  And there are costs like insurance, license fees, listing fees, office rental, etc. that must be paid for before you can put food on the table.

A good negotiator can get in the mindset of each of these positions, and work a deal that makes everyone nod in favor of the transaction.

So if you are asking the buyer or the broker to pay for something, then it is coming out of their pocket and eroding the value of the transaction. If they're willing to do it, then that's good for the buyer.  In this case, it's a real cost, and someone has to pay for it. So in the least you have to consider it as part of the equation. The seller is prepared to pay for it, and that is value. By discounting this to zero value, because you might expect it, well that can be a bit discouraging for the seller and broker, as it is a real cost no matter what you think.

Now, if after you've considered that, it still isn't worth it to you, as a Buyer, move on. It's good to let a seller know what your maximum price is considering the value of the deal, and if it doesn't work out, it's best to let the Seller know as soon as possible, rather than keep their hopes up.

trip_n

@trashman=also if its a good boat and a good deal and ya like it...
and if its close and you can just ride and look.
whats another 1k...my .02

Liberty44140

I don't agree with the "what's another $1k" approach whether the boat is a $30k boat or an $80k boat. It's all about what it's worth to you. When buying my 2006 342 I was close to buying an early 2000s 342 for around $50k and the seller and I ended up $1k off. I walked as it was not worth one more thousand to me. Then I bought my 06 for a heck of a lot more than that $1k I wouldn't spend on the first boat. The 06 was worth it to me and I have zero regrets on that. 

Handymans342

Its hard to determine a value on a used boat of any brand. Brokers usually can get a history of sales much like houses but I saw prices all over the map when I bought mine. Another issue is boats sell at different prices in different parts of the country

Willhound

Very true. I bought from a broker and although I felt his price was 2 G's high, he also offered me 2 G's over what I would have accepted on my trade if I sold it private. So I saved more on the sales tax and no hassle for me, so to me it was worth it.
But a sea trial was also written into the contract with launching at the cost of the broker. Actually a briker/dealer and in this case they "owned" the boat so more meat on the bone for them. 

Spyderweb

Just bought a Rinker this Fall.  It was a brokered boat, broker owned the marina.  Boat was on blocks all summer at marina.  We traded offers back and forth and finally agreed on a price, "contingent upon successful survey and sea trial".  I hired surveyor and we had a 6 hour survey/sea trial.  Broker launched boat, then hauled it out at end of day.  We then renegotiated about issues found in survey and finalized deal.  At that point, I still could have backed out.  It's my 1st time buying through a broker, and process went as I expected from readings.  Broker had agreed to winterize boat.  I agreed to pay him to shrink wrap it.  I suppose that could have gone another way.  

Paul

J3ff

Did I miss where you mentioned the make and model???  

Trashman

J3ff said:

Did I miss where you mentioned the make and model???  

I was avoiding that.... lol.   I’m trying my best. 

rasbury

hmmm....I sense a deserter in the ranks!