Who knows jet boats?

Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Member Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭✭
the admiral would really like a jet boat for next summer so I’ve been looking around for one. 16-18 ft arena, early 2000s. Would prefer a single engine but it seems most have twin. Anyway almost all of of them have had the oil injection pumps disabled so they are now premix fuel manually.  Anyone know why that is so common? Just too expensive to fix? Thx 
07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

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Comments

  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Alot of jet skis did that too. Was an easier fix and ran better. I think Yamaha makes a decent jet boat or Sea do. Make sure parts are easy to get before you buy one. 
  • Cableguy GregCableguy Greg Pittsburgh, PAMember Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stick with a popular brand like Sea Doo. The parts are more readily available.
    2008 280 Express Cruiser, 6.2MPI, B3, Pittsburgh, PA "Blue Ayes"
    Go Steelers!!!
  • WillhoundWillhound Lake Simcoe, Ontario, CanadaMember Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Will echo the above comments, Bombardier, BRP, Ski-Doo whatever you want to call them made a very popular line of jet boats, Challenger was the brand I believe. Yamaha also had several, but not as familiar with them.
    I have to disagree with Handy though as far as pre-mix running better. A properly set up and maintained oil injection system works fantastic and provides the correct amount of oil for given RPM/operating conditions. Way, way back in the early 70's when injection first came out, they were less reliable and many people by-passed them, but to do so in this day and age is the sign of a lazy or un-educated mechanic or an owner that liked taking short cuts on maintenance. I've owned at least 10 snowmobiles, 4 motorcycles and a few boats with oil injection and have never had an issue. If I came across a newer piece of equipment with the oil injection disabled, I'd probably walk from the deal. If they took a short cut on that, what else did they take short cuts on?
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270
  • halifax212halifax212 Halifax NS CanadaMember Posts: 312 ✭✭✭
    Seadoo challenger 18'   Had one prior to the 212.  The 2 strokes were phased out early 2000's replaced with either Mercury or rotax 4 strokes. Pass on the 2 strokes. The later models had a windshield which were way better than my 1999.  Nice and easy to beach but don't start in too shallow water or u will be sucking sand. Very little bow rise with the jets. Excellent fresh water boat with pretty low maintenance. 
  • AlswaggAlswagg Member Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Really really think before you buy.  We don’t recommend any jet boats ever.  Sea Doo doesn’t even produce a jet boat any more.  Yamaha does but very expensive.   Docking and handling are terrible.  Weeds in jet pump is soooo common.   Look at a 18’ center console Key West or Scout  with a yamaha 115 4 stroke 
  • zaverin1zaverin1 Harrison TWP ,MIMember Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    I know everything 
    shoot questions at me 
  • shawnmjrshawnmjr Detroit MIMember Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I’ve got friends that disabled and bought a block off kit for the Oil injection. Not because it quit working but from what i have heard is if the injection pump goes, well so does your motor. I have also heard that one cylinder sometimes gets less oil the way it feeds. These were all older two stroke mid to late 90s jet skis. I am not sure how true this is but this is what they used to tell me. I also have one friend that likes to compete to have the faster ski and he would run lean to pick up some extra speed and let’s just say he rebuilt his engine more than the rest of us. 

    To what Al said about jet boats being horrible I have heard the same thing. I had a buddy buy a seadoo jet boat about 7 years ago and he hated it and he now has a Glastron runabout. I also have another friend who bought a brand new Scarab **** impulse in 2016 (around 40 grand) for his lake house and he already regrets not getting a I/o

  • zaverin1zaverin1 Harrison TWP ,MIMember Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    My 2 cents get a sIngle sugar sand tango or sea rayder with 175 or higher hp 2 stroke.
    v6 converted to premix. Reason behind that is top end blows up if pump goes.
    anyway I would rather invest into a nice center console rib but jets are fun. Here in lsc you can run in the flats where others boats can’t.
    electrical is most common issue. 
    Always check compression on 2 strokes before purchase. Anything 110 or lower or uneven numbers run
  • AlswaggAlswagg Member Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Beware eliminating oil injection , it is a little more complicated than simply adding oil to gas and plugging a line.  The injection pumps are Gear driven off the crank. Injection oil lubricates this pump.   At minimum the complete pump and Gear shaft must be removed.  But again, why not buy a properly running 4 stroke?   
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭✭
    The older jetboats are JUNK, have had a couple in  my group of boaters.  If it had to be a jet boat I'd only get the newer yamaha's. The sea doos were fun, but only run 50% of the time.
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Believe it or not, they suck down the fuel too
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I've owned 3 jetski's and the only one that was "good" on gas was the honda.  The seadoo sporsters with twin engines would blow through 75% of their tank in a few hours. 
  • shawnmjrshawnmjr Detroit MIMember Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭✭
    Here is a nice one, jetboat that is
  • zaverin1zaverin1 Harrison TWP ,MIMember Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Yes gear driving the oil
    pump needs to be removed 
  • halifax212halifax212 Halifax NS CanadaMember Posts: 312 ✭✭✭
    Nice boat for sure @shawnmjr   The boat would be cheaper to maintain than the deckhand I'm sure.
  • bry1429bry1429 Southern Lake Michigan Member Posts: 360 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I picked up a  16' Scarab Supercharged 250HP Jet boat and she's a rocket. I think They stopped making the seadoos back in 2011/2012. This one has been extremely reliable. 
  • shawnmjrshawnmjr Detroit MIMember Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭✭
    Maaannnn that’s a nice setup you got there @bry1429
    That’s your 360 in the background too right?
  • bry1429bry1429 Southern Lake Michigan Member Posts: 360 ✭✭✭
    shawnmjr said:
    Maaannnn that’s a nice setup you got there @bry1429
    That’s your 360 in the background too right?
    Yes, that's my 360 which we picked up from MT last year. Well, that's all the time I have to reply to you @shawnmjr cause I have to get back to work to pay to keep those floating!!!  :D
  • shawnmjrshawnmjr Detroit MIMember Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭✭
    I hear you there. She sure is a beauty 
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Member Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Hey Gang, thanks for the responses on this! This is exactly what I was looking for. Good comments on Sea Doo vs Yamaha, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke and on the oil injection issue. Sounds like if I did go with a Sea Doo 2 stroke with blocked off oil injection it may be ok as long as it was done correctly. I would absolutely prefer a newer 4 stroke so will look for that. Agree with Al on an 18' Key West, they seem hard to come by but that is exactly what I would prefer, but the Admiral has wanted a Jet Boat since I met her 12 yrs ago so I needed to vet out the do's and don'ts if we are going to get her what she wants. I'll keep hunting and probably come back with questions. I was looking at 1996 - 2000 2 stroke Sea Doo's (hence the injection conversion) but I may up my game a little to something in the 2003 Yamaha 4 stroke arena. To each their own but there is no way I would ever spend $30k - $40k on a Jet Boat, for that money I'd have a nice 23ft center console with twin outboards  B)B) 
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • Dude_HimselfDude_Himself Charleston, SCMember Posts: 566 ✭✭✭
    I would argue that the Yamaha's are SOOO much easier to maintain. Pops owns a SeaDoo, I've owned 4 in my lifetime. Modern day Doo's have smaller displacement engines per foot/weight than Yamaha does, and they push them much harder.
    • SeaDoo SuperChargers - need annual maintenance or it fragments itself and the small ceramic bearings tumble into the intake and grind away the engine as part of the lubrication system.
    • SeaDoo Valves: Sodium filled (lighter, higher reving), but they tend to rust out where the exhaust allows moisture in
    • SeaDoo pumps: Smaller for better holeshot, but as they come out of spec they dramatically drop power.
    The Yamaha's, however, are typically lower performing twin engines. They're dirt simple, lower compression, heavier construction, and tend to last a lot longer. You'll find a lot of SeaDoo's under 400 hours, but not many running over that (without a rebuild). You'll find many Yamaha's for sale with 1000's of hours, still running. You'll pay more for the Yamaha, but I really feel they're better craft.

    Jet drive vs prop: horrible economy, can't run as shallow (without sucking up debris), can't plane on one engine, can easily clog with debris, you will have to dive under the boat to clear it out (vs raising the drive and staying dry), and the self-draining scupper design almost always leads to water in the boat. When it was cold I'd plug the scuppers and pray I didn't take a wave. I was happy to transition to prop drive.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • wm61356wm61356 Harrison Twp., MIMember Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    I second alswagg's comments. I was interested in a small jet boat but a good friend of mine suggested I look at small center console boats as well. I purchased a Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport and absolutely love it. Quiet and reliable Mercury 40 HP 4 stroke sips fuel and runs strong. The boat only draws 8 inches of water and I never have to worry about a jet pump sucking up weeds or sand. It has plenty of room for gear or passengers... There are several brands that make a similar type of boat as the BW that are worth consideration in my opinion. Good luck with whatever you choose!
  • shawnmjrshawnmjr Detroit MIMember Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    If the wife wants it then do it regardless of what we all say Lol. Happy Wife = Happy Life and then you have some leverage when it’s time to upgrade your baby. Sounds like a win win
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Member Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Need some more advice. Found a 1996 Sea doo challenger 15. Has the single 110hp, 787cc engine. $2800 cash and it has a replaced engine. Great deal I’d like to jump on but the current owner is not sure that it will pull a skier. We are not hard core water skiers but like to ski on some nice mornings. Current owner has never tried skiing. Will this boat pull a 130-180 lb person?
    Post edited by Liberty44140 on
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • 69fastback69fastback Gunter, TXMember Posts: 572 ✭✭✭
    I would argue that the Yamaha's are SOOO much easier to maintain. Pops owns a SeaDoo, I've owned 4 in my lifetime. Modern day Doo's have smaller displacement engines per foot/weight than Yamaha does, and they push them much harder.
    • SeaDoo SuperChargers - need annual maintenance or it fragments itself and the small ceramic bearings tumble into the intake and grind away the engine as part of the lubrication system.
    • SeaDoo Valves: Sodium filled (lighter, higher reving), but they tend to rust out where the exhaust allows moisture in
    • SeaDoo pumps: Smaller for better holeshot, but as they come out of spec they dramatically drop power.
    The Yamaha's, however, are typically lower performing twin engines. They're dirt simple, lower compression, heavier construction, and tend to last a lot longer. You'll find a lot of SeaDoo's under 400 hours, but not many running over that (without a rebuild). You'll find many Yamaha's for sale with 1000's of hours, still running. You'll pay more for the Yamaha, but I really feel they're better craft.

    Jet drive vs prop: horrible economy, can't run as shallow (without sucking up debris), can't plane on one engine, can easily clog with debris, you will have to dive under the boat to clear it out (vs raising the drive and staying dry), and the self-draining scupper design almost always leads to water in the boat. When it was cold I'd plug the scuppers and pray I didn't take a wave. I was happy to transition to prop drive.

    Just my 2 cents.
    spot on. The Yamahas are light years better than those old sea doo boats. Also, Yamaha has a compartment you can open and clear the drives from inside the boat. 
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Member Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks 69 but I’ve moved on from the original question and I’m looking to understand if a 15’ Sea doo with a single 110hp jet will pull a skier. I would think yes as a 17’ center console with a 90hp outboard has no problem but wanted to ask the experts here. 
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • Mike_GMike_G Lake St. ClairMember Posts: 256 ✭✭✭
    Just wanted to chime in..  We had a 2003 Sugar Sand Tango Xtreme with the 240HP 2-stoke fuel injected Mercury. That thing was rock solid the entire time we had it.  So much power! Had to be well over 500 hours on it.  We used it 4 days a week, all summer each year.  A friend of mine bought it last year and it's still strong (my friend sold the lake house).

    Here is a mostly boring video of me cruising around one of the lakes in the chain we were on.  A couple spinouts later in the video.


    -=Mike G.

    2014 Rinker 260EC


  • Dude_HimselfDude_Himself Charleston, SCMember Posts: 566 ✭✭✭
    It will, when it runs right. It'll run right, if you pay attention to the RAVE, carbs, and jet.

    Carbs = it's 90% getting the right pop off pressure and sync. That can take some work, and isn't the easiest.

    RAVE: keep them clean and my bed.

    Jet: you'll almost undoubtedly have to pull the pump, shaft, foot, and re-bed it. They ALL leak after a few years. Replace the carbon seal with a grease seal, machine the shaft to work with the new seal, and put a couple pumps of grease every month. Without that I would wager it'll cavitate within the first 10 hours you run it, if not when you buy it.

    I made money in college buying these running rough, tuning them, and selling them. Properly cared for - they'll give the 18' supercharged 4-tec a run for the money. They'll yank twin slaloms up, easily pull a skier/tuber, and put you in the seat.
  • zaverin1zaverin1 Harrison TWP ,MIMember Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Ye I agree with dude
    chexk compression prior to purchase but no answer your question yes it will pull a skier
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Member Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks guys. Great info Dude, engine was replaced with a used block that was in good shape 3 years ago so I will see if that jet work was done yet or not. Will keep on the maintenance!

    Zav we did compression, was good at just over 150 on each and within 1 or 2 psi. Used a cheap auto zone rental and got weird readings at first but then gave it a quick final turn in the hole with pliers and it tightened up and gave good readings. Forgot to open the throttle for the test but from what I read that rarely makes a difference and would only make them a little better.

    thanks again!


    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

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