Mid Ship Leak

rasbury

I thought I had this nailed but after a hard rain when I got home last night to work on my trim tab I checked the mid ship berth area and it was wet....bummer. I thought I posted this early this am but I don't see it...so if it is a duplicate, sorry!
Here is where I am at:

Since I have had the boat this leak has been there. The mattress in the starboard corner had gotten wet...the material had gone bad and I pulled the mattress out. It has not been a bad leak, more of an annoyance and I have certainly had bigger fish to fry for those that are on the forum regularly.

So here is what I did to start:

The "ceiling" if the mid ship berth is in two pieces...one large one that goes the width and length of it and then one other piece that is maybe a foot wide that runs the width. When I pulled them down, the large piece had obviously been getting wet for some time. There was mold on it and also the thin paneling/plywood was coming apart.  The other piece to my surprise really was ok- it may have gotten a little wet as there was some discoloration but was not bad and do not intend to replace anything of that piece. 

Now then, the way this is put together, you have other vinyl covered areas that run into the mid ship- you know around the entrance to this area. The edges are tucked up under the ceiling panels.  I expected as I peeled some of that back to see water damage- It was completely dry around this panel. I had even removed and re sealed the window that is in the mid ship area as well- no evidence of water leaking...inspecting for either discoloration or mold. Right under the helm seat not quite in the center of this panel but a little forward was where the water was dripping from.

Looking at where else it might be coming from: It would not be from the door or the door track leaking in or under at it is lower than the "ceiling' of the mid ship berth. The only thing I could see that would be level with that "ceiling" was the following. The gray helm piece of fiberglass meets the floor of the deck or the other side of the "ceiling". Where they meet there is a caulk. When I looked in the inspection plate, it's kind of out but there is a "V" right there where they meet that looks like it would be a trough to collect water. I looked at the seal between the two and it seemed like it needed to be redone. Also, when the boat sits on the street pointing in the legal direction, the pitch of the road forces water to just sit there. It would disappear. So, I got some clear and resealed that. After some cleaning with the hose on the deck and watching down below I did not see any leaking so thought I had it until last night. 

When I get down and look at where it is dripping, there are two holes right there where screws for the sealing went and it looks to me like it is coming out of those holes and not running there from somewhere along the sealing, hitting a low point to collect and drip. It looks like it is coming out of those holes...like it is in the deck itself and coming out of the holes.

When the helm seat is constructed, is it all a mold for the seat base and the upper deck half? Could I have some separation there I'm not seeing where water is getting in? I guess I need to stick something up in that hole and make sure it does not go through to up under that helm seat somewhere...like to long of screws were used. Would that not be sweet to resolve like that and will look at the screws.......I don't see where it could say run down from a window mounting screw and get to where it is dripping from....I just don't see there being that path to run to...if it were in the main cabin yes but it would have to go down and then back up to get to that ceiling....I wish I new better how the hull was built and put together....maybe I'll take that apart next!

Dude_Himself

Did you run the AC last trip out? That ended up being my issue - the through hull for the AC cooling discharge hose clamp had loosened (or wasn't tightened properly) and was leaking along there, which would run back along the floor until it hit the starboard firewall: given no where else to go it would pool until it soaked the carpet and wicked under the mattress.

Dude_Himself

Ok, reread what you wrote - you mean ceiling (not sealing)! Hmmm.... I'm not sure. When I was chasing my demons I used a little food coloring - different water colors in different locations, then waited. Of course, the water always came out clear - I was chasing my tail (see post above).

I'd pick up a cheap endoscope off Amazon and use that to poke around the various places near there. Could be a simple fix.

rasbury

@Dude_Himself not sure what boat you have but consider that the ceiling on the mid ship berth is a very isolated area. And, it's leaking through the ceiling which is very worry some!

Dude_Himself

I have a 2007 280 EC, similar I believe. I'm replaced the AC, so I'm aware of how claustrophobic the midship berth is - that's why I suggested the endoscope.

Good luck man! I'll be heading that way in the near future - I need a celebratory vacation for a few days of R&R. I usually head to Florida to play.

rasbury

So, while waiting for a piston seal for a break caliper l hot back to looking at my leak...
So, I pulled the piece where the crappy cooler used to go. To recap, I pulled the two pannels off the ceiling of the mid ship. The front one/ towards the bow was "ok" and really did not look like it had been getting wet. The next one, big one, towards the stern had been getting very wet, was molddy and the wood was falling apart. With the mooring cover on, no leak. With the fact that it was leaking through the ceiling of the midship and not just running down it I was convinced it was something above the ceiling. When I opened up under the sink where the cooler is, there is a large pan under there which will catch water if it comes through the trash lid. Not really sure why it is there..it runs from under the sink to up under the helm seat - EXCEPT- know where that storage area is under the helm? Right underneath that, that pan jogs around it. So, when I soaked that bare area underneath it and went back down, there are two holes in the ceiling which are two of the screw holes that mount the ceiling, water is dripping. I notice when I soaked the helm seat area, water is coming through and dripping to that bare area. So, found it, just not sure how to fix it! I am tempted to drill out one of those holes and see what is above it.....

zaverin1

Or just 3m the suckers 

rasbury

Well I certainly thought of that! I'm worried the water is infiltrating that material and I may stop the leak from dripping but the deck "material" might be filling with water with no where to go? That pan is made very odd and will try to post a picture....one thing I have thought of is to fill that void with something so that if anything is headed to it, it will run off into the pan and drain out...I will work with the hose more to make sure it is not leaking through that pan...don't know how long it takes to leak from when I squirt it with the water...I'm pretty sure that is it however. Looks like water is getting through the seat mounting and runs into this area...It has been doing it since the boat was built....the mattress cover was pretty much ruined when I bought the boat. As long as it was covered it was ok- the camper package looked like it was kept on the boat full time but by the time I bought the boat it was pretty much done and he never replaced it. Thrilled I at least resolved it to a smaller area!

GMSLITHO

can you get the pan out if you take out the cooler insert and see if there are holes in the deck somewhere 

rasbury

Nope....and I can see where it is coming through...it is two of the screws that hold the ceiling up....I need to change the flow of the drip so it goes to the pan....I'm talking out loud here ( well writing) but I think that is the way to resolve it and get the water out of a bad place to a good place where it will drain properly...

rasbury

Ok, so more testing...first, it is dry as a bone here in FL so I'm for sure dealing with the water from the hose. Yesterday I sprayed all over the deck around the helm and did not have any leak. Here is a picture of the pan that is under the sink/trash bin. The fiberglass going down is that storage area under the helm seat.  See the area to the right that goes forward? It is the same on the other side and it has mildew crap in that section like it has been getting wet and collecting water. So I took the hose and put it under that downward part of the helm and let it run but did not really get anything...i stuck the hose on the left side...eventually I started getting a drip but realized it was spraying over the lip of the tray. One problem with my theory is the hole the water is dripping from, I don't really think it would trip if it had a screw in it . I need to check and see for sure if that hole gets a screw from the ceiling. I'm more concerened that the panel is filling up with water and when it gets "full", it's coming out of that hole. Right ahead of that pan would be the edge of the helm seat on the outside- just not sure how that much water is getting there when I'm not using the hose- we have had no rain for about two weeks and 80's and lower 90's. Tomorrow I will start by spraying down the helm seat. I'm thinking just coat everything in there with some flex seal? I wish I could get the pan out but not going to happen...even if I could raise it and get underneath that area and seal it real well...  @Alswagg any comment knowing how these 270's are put together?

rasbury

So, did some more water testing..sprayed the helm seat- zip. Sprayed the tray and very careful not to let any go over the lip....where that tray drains there is about 2 inches from the edge of that panel to the inside of the hull. There is a cut out in the lip of the tray at the back for any water to drain down the side of the Hull. This test, the carpet was soaked along the starboard side with nothing visibly coming from the ceiling...next I may have to pull what ever pannels are  on that starboard side like around the a/c grille so I can see back behind there to see where the water is coming through from...maybe something is blocking the flow of the drain water.. this is driving me nuts!

rasbury

Well, still working through this and learning as I go...so, guessing that the flood of water I sent through the hull per the above it is not meant to handle. I pulled the access to the a/c on the starboard side and the carpet goes all the way to the side of the hull so torrent of water I sent with test was just not meant to handle that much water I'm guessing....so will continue to try and figure this out..bummer. I don't understand why that carpet is not trimmed at the edge of the floor. If there is a leak from a window or hardware, that carpet could catch it rather than drain to the bottom of the hull. When I flooded that pan under the sink it looks like most of that water drained right to the carpet and then soaked along that starboard side of the mid ship bearth.  So, I guess I will seal that pan and in front of it as best I can and hope that leak through the ceiling stops.

rasbury

So I want to pull the helm seat off, the base has a little slop and thinking a little leaking going on...so when I look up under the seat it looks pretty straight forward with nuts on the other side of the base....all are accessible except the ones in the back. The area under the sink which is not desinged to get a lot of water and want to eliminate leaks- I'm thinking water is getting under that pan and running to the back and getting the carpet wet....so, can of flex seal to seal the screws for that pan and in front of it so water does not get under it....I want to seal the mounting for the helm seat..if I can get it off...

rasbury

I seem to be answering my own questions, but slide the helm forward and you have screw heads for the four bolts underneath and assume the whole thing comes off. I'm looking for leaks anywhere they might be. I sprayed the flex seal but do not feel I got it where I needed it so might get some of the liquid so I can pour it....sprayed all the fastner heads that hold the pan down...

DanD2

By the time your done' that boat will NEVER come apart....

Lake_Bum

Just flex seal the whole boat. Problem solved! 

Dude_Himself

rasbury said:

Well, still working through this and learning as I go...so, guessing that the flood of water I sent through the hull per the above it is not meant to handle. I pulled the access to the a/c on the starboard side and the carpet goes all the way to the side of the hull so torrent of water I sent with test was just not meant to handle that much water I'm guessing....so will continue to try and figure this out..bummer. I don't understand why that carpet is not trimmed at the edge of the floor. If there is a leak from a window or hardware, that carpet could catch it rather than drain to the bottom of the hull. When I flooded that pan under the sink it looks like most of that water drained right to the carpet and then soaked along that starboard side of the mid ship bearth.  So, I guess I will seal that pan and in front of it as best I can and hope that leak through the ceiling stops.

That stupid carpet was the source of the smell on my boat before I stopped the leak. It makes sense to slap these together, but trimming that carpet would only take a second, and treating with something like VyCore would make the boat impervious to AC condensate splash AND make it so much easier to find where the water is coming from (or add a single sloped piece of foam and divert it all to the bilge, where it belongs).

rasbury

I have found leaks through the fastner that secure the helm seat. Also, there are two inspection plates, I assume to get to the bolts that hold down the helm seat that also leak.  Will caulk that tonight and hope that is the end of it...will see. Knock them down as I can find them.

rasbury

@Dude_Himself how did you get to the carpet to trim it?

rasbury

So I pulled the helm seat off and my goodness, the drilled the holes for the bolts for the seat with a 12 gage so no wonder why that was leaking- sealed up the inspection plates so will test tomorrow I hope...

MarkB

Good luck, I think you've got it, if not you're close.

rasbury

So, had one heck of a storm blow through while working on the boat this weekend....finished putting in the new master cylinder....bled the breaks. Started early Saturday cleaning as with pulling and re install of the motor...and then power steering pump well it is pretty hard to keep things clean climbing in and out of the bilge . Starbright has theie clearer for non skid surfaces that really does a good job of pulling the grease and yuk out of the gelcoat....but anyway. So, I go down below because it is really rocking and rolling....boat on the trailer is really knocking around. So, I go down into the mid ship and I'm looking over where I have had my drip and ....NO DRIP!!! But, as I'm laying there watching, I get another friggin drip from just aft of the window there at the mid ship. I already have pulled and resealed that. I think since I had the seats pulled off, that newly discovered storage area behind that seat was exposed- it's a big darn piece of plastic and I'm thinking with the seat off water got to the seal when otherwise it would not and that was the problem. Sigh..... will be interested to see with the seats back on of it leaks or not...was not leaking there prior. If so, will pull that darn thing out and reseal it but was able to store all my oils I was keeping under the helm seat in there...don't think I would put my shore power in there as it is a little damp...