Crazy....anchor line too thick for my cleats!

luvinlife

Here's an odd one.  The anchor line on my 2006 Fiesta Vee 270 is too thick to fit on either of my bow cleats AND the cleat in the windlass anchor locker.  I assume it's the stock line and chain, but I can't believe Rinker would build the boat with this setup.  My options are to add larger cleats or a smaller diameter anchor line. I am not sure what thickness the line is but I will measure it once the shrink wrap comes off.  One of my spring projects before I splash is to rectify this issue one way or another. 

reneechris14

Smaller rode won't work in the windless.

Willhound

When the rode line is tied to the cleat or eye inside the actual anchor locker below deck it is split and braided. If you mean the cleat under the bow cover over the windlass you don't want to ever tie off your anchor rode there or on the bow cleats. Use an anchor rode snubber or a lighter line with a Prussik knot.  ( search here or Google it) . It absorbs the shock of the boat bobbing in waves and takes the stress off the windlass.

Black_Diamond

Sounds like the wrong size rode was used. Probably by a previous owner. 

Dream_Inn

I agree with both BD and Willhound.  Probably wrong (larger) size was used by PO.  But, larger is ok and can be used with a prusik knot.  I use the prusik knot most of the time while anchoring and really is the best way to tie off your rhode.

luvinlife

I had considered a prusik knot as an option. I would just need a short line. Does anyone know of a snubber that can be used with an anchor line? I think most are made to attach to chain. I have 25 feel of chain but use quite a bit more rode than that. 

Dude_Himself

I bought the rubber dog-toy looking snubber on Amazon. There's loops of rope on each end - I connect the anchor rode, run it around 5-6 times, connect the other end, then have a lighter line that I prusik to the anchor rode just above the snubber and secure with the anchor locker cleat. Although to be honest - if the current isn't ripping and we're staying on the boat I'll just let the windlass hold the load for short periods - that way we can rapidly weigh anchor if conditions change or we just want to move.

LaRea

I don't cleat the rode unless I'm the only anchor with, say, five or more boats.  

Although, if it's windy and other boats are coming, I probably should tie a Prusik.  By Murphy's Law, my boat will always swing wildly just as another boat approaches to raft up.  A Prusik would be a little safer.  

Dream_Inn

LaRea said:

I don't cleat the rode unless I'm the only anchor with, say, five or more boats.  

Although, if it's windy and other boats are coming, I probably should tie a Prusik.  By Murphy's Law, my boat will always swing wildly just as another boat approaches to raft up.  A Prusik would be a little safer.  

Definitely give the prusik knot a try!  I'm hooked on it and use it quite often now.  I have a line dedicated just for it.

Willhound

I have about a 10 foot piece of 1/2" line already pre-tied into a loop. Very quick and easy to give it a couple of wraps around the rode and loop it over a cleat. More importantly, should the need arise it is very easy and fast to remove it to raise anchor. If you tie the road directly to a cleat I could see potential for getting it jammed up. I'd rather cut a $2 piece of line than a $300 rode....

Stodge

That reminds me I have to make a new safety chain for my rode.  I put a 18 inch or so piece of chain on the cleat in the windlass locker with a stainless snap link on the end and clip it to the rode after the windlass when anchored.  Rather have the tension on the cleat than the windlass.

The old arrangement was a cable and one of the end loops gave way.

luvinlife

Willhound, If I understand correctly you simply have a 10 foot line with loops on each and a wrap it a few times around the rode and then cleat both ends.  The 10 foot line does not slip?  

Dream_Inn

@luvinlife , that is exactly what a prusik knot is.  You wrap it around twice and then tie the ends off on the cleats.  It does not slip at all, but extremely easy to do and even better, it's very easy to remove.

Liberty44140

LaRea said:

I don't cleat the rode unless I'm the only anchor with, say, five or more boats.  

Although, if it's windy and other boats are coming, I probably should tie a Prusik.  By Murphy's Law, my boat will always swing wildly just as another boat approaches to raft up.  A Prusik would be a little safer.  

LR, surprised that you don’t cleat. You leave it right on the windlass? Do you keep the gypsee super tight so that there is no slip? Or do you just accept some slip?

Willhound

luvinlife said:

Willhound, If I understand correctly you simply have a 10 foot line with loops on each and a wrap it a few times around the rode and then cleat both ends.  The 10 foot line does not slip?  

Nope. I took a 10 foot piece of line, tied it into a round loop that stretches out about 5 feet overall. I loop one end a couple of times over the rode in a Prusik knot and then take the slack end and loop it around the cleat. Just like this, but instead of the proper 3 loops, I usually just do 2 and it works fine. If overnighting or higher winds I'll do 3. Just like this. And although it shows that you can slide the knot, it will not move under tension. It was originally a climbers knot used to tie off a safety line to another line but allowing movement as you need to adjust by slacking off the line, sliding it, and then when re-tensioned it is tight again. Also why so handy as an anchor rode tie, if you don't like how it's laying, you just slide it where you like to take tension off the rode and windlass.

Stodge

@Willhound Does that prevent more rode from pulling (slipping) out of your windlass?  I'd expect the rode to still be able to slide as illustrated.

Just curious.

Willhound

Stodge said:

@Willhound Does that prevent more rode from pulling (slipping) out of your windlass?  I'd expect the rode to still be able to slide as illustrated.

Just curious.

I edited my post above to explain. The knot will only slide if you first take tension off the line. Once the weight of the boat is back on the knot it will not move. Takes tension off the windlass and also acts like a spring line so the boat doesn't "jerk" as much in waves.

Dream_Inn

I do mine a little different than Willhound, but still the same concept.  I also, like Willhound, only wrap around twice instead of three times.  Mine is just a line, not a loop. I have each end go to a cleat, so it pulls evenly at the bow.  My process, after allowing enough rode out, I put the knot around the rode near pulpit.  Then I tie to each cleat (one end has a small loop, which is makes it easy).  Next I just add more rode out until all the tension is on my line.

Stodge

Might give that a try and see how it works with chain rode.

LaRea

@Dream_Inn - you've apparently known for years that an anchor bridle reduces swinging at anchor, but I never figured out why until recently.  

It's all about increasing the horizontal distance between the rode attachment point and the boat's center of mass.  If the distance is longer, the anchor rode applies more torque to prevent the boat from swinging.  

With a bridle, here's what happens:  When the bow swings to port, it slacks the stbd side of the bridle.  When the bow swings to stbd, it slacks the port side.  Either way, a bridle gives you a longer torque arm, higher torque and therefore less swing.

LaRea

Liberty44140 said:  

LR, surprised that you don’t cleat. You leave it right on the windlass? Do you keep the gypsee super tight so that there is no slip? Or do you just accept some slip?

Yes, I leave it on the windlass most of the time.  I do keep the gypsy very tight, and it has never slipped.  

Liberty44140

Interesting. I ask because I keep my gypsey very tight so there is no slip when anchored (it has slipped a little when I leave the boat in reverse too long setting the anchor) so I was considering letting it go a little more loose so that it can slip and no risk of damage from no slip. Really don’t know what is “right”, tight gypsey or some slip

LaRea

If I'm backing down too fast when the anchor bites, I might get a few inches of slip.  It never slips when I'm anchored alone or with a couple other boats.  

DanD2

LaRea said:

If I'm backing down too fast when the anchor bites, I might get a few inches of slip.  It never slips when I'm anchored alone or with a couple other boats.  

Unless there's lots of chop or heavy winds, I never cleat my anchor line.

luvinlife said:

Here's an odd one.  The anchor line on my 2006 Fiesta Vee 270 is too thick to fit on either of my bow cleats AND the cleat in the windlass anchor locker.  I assume it's the stock line and chain, but I can't believe Rinker would build the boat with this setup.  My options are to add larger cleats or a smaller diameter anchor line. I am not sure what thickness the line is but I will measure it once the shrink wrap comes off.  One of my spring projects before I splash is to rectify this issue one way or another. 

I know EXACTLY what your problem is........................You need a bigger boat!!

Dream_Inn

I agree with your analysis @LaRea , but let me add another significant advantage is the angle which you are pulling on your rode is reduced.  There are two reasons for this, one you are technically making the rode longer, but not moving the boat.  The second is, at least from the line I use, the line keeps a constant pull just above the water, not from the pulpit.  This cuts off a good 3-4 feet of vertical distance for the 7-1 ratio.  

& yes, the "torque" or what I'd rather say moment of inertia, revolves a bit further back from the bow, causing less movement/swinging.  It is definitely noticeably better.

luvinlife

Thanks to all who sent ideas.  Based on what I have learned, I will NOT change the cleats on my boat. Instead I will use a prusik knot and tie off to the bow cleats.