Shower sump issue

boatman37

So not a Rinker but still a normal Rule pump and you guys are pretty good at solving these issues. So I replaced my shower sump with a new Rule pump. Installed the new one and nothing comes out. Disconnect the output hose and water shoots out like a garden hose. Blow through the output hose with my mouth and no problem. With the hose connected I turn the pump on and the level drops a little then stops dropping. I turn the pump off and it backfills back into the dump back to the original level. Stumped here.

Black_Diamond

What is the vertical distance from the pump to the thru hull?  Loops or the output tube dropping low can cause the pump to basically get ‘blocked’

make sure you have an open vent on the shower box too!

boatman37

Pump to the thru hull would be about 3-4' direct line. Can't see any loops but it's behind my AC unit so can't see it

skennelly

Maybe a low voltage issue?  It can pump with no hose attached and no back pressure???

jhofmann

Depending on how powerful the pump is, 4 feet may be more than it can pump. I once tried to use an ond boldge pump that worked fine in the boat pumping 2-3 feet, but would not pump 5 feet from the basement floor to the window.

Stodge

I get something like vacuum lock in my shower sump some times.  Best I can figure is that there is enough uphill slope that if the hose if filled full it will push against the pump and freeze it.  I have a check valve I've been meaning to put on the discharge hose.

I fix it by pulling the pump out, then stuffing it back into the housing.

Cableguy Greg

What size is the pump?

Ian

"I turn the pump on and the level drops a little then stops dropping. " This tells me it's pumped it into the pipe but the level is no below the pickup. Is there enough water to fill the pipe for any to come out?  Do you have the same problem if you fill the shower sump box? Maybe the float is triggering but there's not enough to come out the other end but fills the pipe and the float drops and shuts off.. My bilge pumps will pump until the level drops below trigger and then what is in the pipe flows back in but it's not enough to make the float trip again.

aero3113

icoultha said:

"I turn the pump on and the level drops a little then stops dropping. " This tells me it's pumped it into the pipe but the level is no below the pickup. Is there enough water to fill the pipe for any to come out?  Do you have the same problem if you fill the shower sump box? Maybe the float is triggering but there's not enough to come out the other end but fills the pipe and the float drops and shuts off.. My bilge pumps will pump until the level drops below trigger and then what is in the pipe flows back in but it's not enough to make the float trip again.

That sounds like what’s happening. Try to fill it with a constant flow of water and see what happens.

MarkB

boatman37 said:

So not a Rinker but still a normal Rule pump and you guys are pretty good at solving these issues. So I replaced my shower sump with a new Rule pump. Installed the new one and nothing comes out. Disconnect the output hose and water shoots out like a garden hose. Blow through the output hose with my mouth and no problem. With the hose connected I turn the pump on and the level drops a little then stops dropping. I turn the pump off and it backfills back into the dump back to the original level. Stumped here.

How high is it lifting before it is discharged. Basically, you don't have a strong pump, so imagine the line fills up, and it tries to push it up 3 or 4 ft, and it just can't, so the water just sits there in the line with the pump spinning. When you stop the pump, it loses pressure and all that water goes back into the sump. 

I can think of 3 issues:

- the pump is not generating sufficient pressure

- there is a restriction in the line and the pump cannot overcome that restriction

- the height the pump has to elevate the water too is too high.

boatman37

It's a Rule 800 GPH shower sump. I took the lid off and poured water in there. The first time I did pour water in the shower drain but when I had trouble I took the lid off and have been filling it that way. It's the same pump that was in there before. I just bought this boat in August and it didn't work then either but I assumed it had worked at one time with that pump given how dirty it looked.

At this point I'm thinking restriction or too much uphill. Not sure what else it might be. I can blow through the hose easily but will try flushing it with a garden hose tomorrow.

There is enough water in the sump. The pump will run continuously with nothing coming out so it isn't dropping low enough to shut the float off. It only shuts off when I unplug the plug.

Going to mess with it tomorrow and see what I can find.

Stodge

That sounds like mine.  Have you tried pulling the pump out of the housing so it starts spewing water, then pushing it back in?  When I do that it drains the sump and works as expected from then on.  

boatman37

Yep. Unhooked it from the clips in the base and turned it on. Water shot out. Reconnected it and hooked up the hose and nothing.

jhofmann

If you can blow through the hose that indicate there is no blockage. You may have an "air block", see the attached video as explained by rule.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cweD5wJ6nh8

Dream_Inn

I had similar issues with mine a couple times.  It was the one thing I bought at West Marine and just took back two different times.  Finally, the current one I have has worked like a champ the last year+.  Not sure why, but I think it has something to do with that box and maybe not letting enough air in with that lid on?

boatman37

I had the lid off for the testing. But yeah that video might explain the issue. Problem is I can't see the length of the hose to see if there are any loops but it does look like there might be.

Just tried fishing a cable through the hose and about 3.5 feet in it stops. Tried from the inside and about 1.5 feet in it stops. Might be a bend the cable can't get around or something.

Something else that was weird was a couple of times when I ran the sump pump I could see water running in the hose for the mid cabin pump. As far as I can tell these hoses are separate and don't connect anywhere and it only did that a couple of times. The last time I noticed when I shut the sump pump off water backflowed into the mid cabin pump and you could see the water in the mid cabin bilge swirl.

MarkB

boatman37 said:

It's a Rule 800 GPH shower sump. I took the lid off and poured water in there. The first time I did pour water in the shower drain but when I had trouble I took the lid off and have been filling it that way. It's the same pump that was in there before. I just bought this boat in August and it didn't work then either but I assumed it had worked at one time with that pump given how dirty it looked.

At this point I'm thinking restriction or too much uphill. Not sure what else it might be. I can blow through the hose easily but will try flushing it with a garden hose tomorrow.

There is enough water in the sump. The pump will run continuously with nothing coming out so it isn't dropping low enough to shut the float off. It only shuts off when I unplug the plug.

Going to mess with it tomorrow and see what I can find.

Too much uphill really doesn't make sense, I put it up there, because it is a possibility, but those pumps should be able to pump to the top of your radar arch.  I would say restriction or the pump is not generating pressure (it's broken).

boatman37

Seems to be fixed. I backflushed it with water from my garden hose then it seemed to work. Now just need to fix the power issue to it.

Thanks!

Dream_Inn

It may have been gunk in there building up.  I've taken them apart and found all kinds of stuff wrapped around the impeller before that really slows it down.