350 MAG MPI upgrade kit

Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
look at this baby from Hardin Marine 


Past owner of a 2003 342FV
PC BYC, Holland, MI
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Comments

  • zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Nice lol but never understood people putting bigger engines or chargers on boats. Sorry this is ok for cigs,Kats and race lmao.
    cruisers and Most all other boats are limited by the hull. This means it won’t go any faster or slower.
    faster is really 4-5mph per 80 horse 
  • diggin2day1diggin2day1 Member Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭✭
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes not cheap, while you may not get speed the extra hp (no torque numbers were given) is huge to get moving. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • IanIan Member Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭✭
    How fast do you really need to get moving....? 

    Regards,

    Ian

    The Third “B”

    Secretary, Ravena Coeymans Yacht Club

    https://www.rcyachtclub.com/

  • LaReaLaRea Member Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Neat, but does 50% more power mean you need 50% more cooling?  And would you need to re-prop?  And add drive coolers?  
  • 04FV270riverrat04FV270riverrat Member Posts: 268 ✭✭✭
    I’d go with a 1k set of Hill props
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Black_Diamond that's sweet. Bravo3 only rated for 500hp go with the X Drive and 26 pitch prop and you will be the talk if the town.
    6079 x2.  12g charger 
    8000 x 2. 16g drives
    1000 x 2.   2g props
                    $30000 
    I'm sold glad I have all winter to set it up.
    Got me a go fast 342.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • McGarnicleMcGarnicle Member Posts: 242 ✭✭✭
    @Black_Diamond that's sweet. Bravo3 only rated for 500hp go with the X Drive and 26 pitch prop and you will be the talk if the town.
    6079 x2.  12g charger 
    8000 x 2. 16g drives
    1000 x 2.   2g props
                    $30000 
    I'm sold glad I have all winter to set it up.
    Got me a go fast 342.
    There was a pro-charged 34PC with surface drives for sale in Cali that claimed to be a 70mph cruiser. Thats a big **** boat to be moving that fast. 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zaverin1 said:
    Nice lol but never understood people putting bigger engines or chargers on boats. Sorry this is ok for cigs,Kats and race lmao.
    cruisers and Most all other boats are limited by the hull. This means it won’t go any faster or slower.
    faster is really 4-5mph per 80 horse 
    this is not exactly true... 

    if more power pushes you out of the hole and onto the pad of the hull quicker, and allows the boat to ride further back on the pad, there is less drag and greater speed.  if you're talking a trawler, or a cruiser designed w/o a pad incorporated into the hull you'd be right- but Rinker's are designed as planing hulls, and as such 80 ponies are going to produce a lot more speed if it is properly propped as it cuts the water further back on the pad- providing dramatically less drag.  

    the prop is where the problems are going to happen with a boosted engine- especially a belt/crank driven (both roots and centrifugal varieties) charger... the parasitic loss down low returns with a vengeance when the engine breaks into the power band, which relates to needing a low pitch to get moving and then a much higher pitch to take advantage of the power- it would be hard to pull this off on a cruiser which likely won't respond well to having cleaver bladed props.   

    this rig WOULD help dramatically with either pulling boats (watersports) or work boats (carrying or pulling) as extra power is on tap and ready- they could turn a bigger prop up to the rotational assembly/valve train's capability at a lower load or w/o lugging the engine. 

    as a for instance- I ran a 4.3LX in a 212 w/21p three blade and could hit 44mph... I played around until i was happily at 45mph with the same engine and propped differently- but then dropped a 314cid (bored 305) in the same boat and with same RonHill Pleasure 5 19p / 14 1/8" prop, and which was somewhere in the neighborhood of 100hp stronger (but tq dramatically increased especially in low range) and sniffed 60mph.  I promptly windowed that block... the 357mag (mercruiser factory built) in it now runs in the 55~59mph class (plenty of speed and all i need) using less fuel than the 4.3 and with more refined and wider TQ band, allowing better overall manners for every use i have for it. 


    I wouldn't want this 212's hull much over 60mph.  it isn't designed for that.  neither are the larger cruisers.  sitting flat on the pad is the best place to be and most stable (read:safe).  
  • F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    with enough power our hulls would be just on the props... you drop a few 1000hp in one of our hulls with proper drives...and it would be a very quick boat
    zaverin1 said:
    Nice lol but never understood people putting bigger engines or chargers on boats. Sorry this is ok for cigs,Kats and race lmao.
    cruisers and Most all other boats are limited by the hull. This means it won’t go any faster or slower.
    faster is really 4-5mph per 80 horse 

    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I put a 390 HP  (totally built 383) *actually ran 407 HP on the dyno until we dialed it back.  The 1994 Rinker 190 it was in did 70 mph on the gps. Bravo 1 drive with SS shower and custom blue-printed precision Propeller (Indiana) prop. Have posted pictures of it here before. I have pictures somewhere of it at speed and only about the last 10" of the hull were in the water. Not for the faint of heart.

    Have helped install Pro-chargers and Whipple chargers in friends' boats. You have to be very very careful doing that with even a 350 Mag as you can blow it up easy. We never dialed-in the full boost - maybe 70% rated as the stock rods, valves etc. ( even on a 350 or 377 Mag) can't handle that.

    Boost and its buddies will shorten the life of any non boost designated motor.

    When considering boost or ANY HP it is essential to "build the engine" even - that is spend the same amount of money on enhancements on the bottom as you do on the top.

    IMO
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with 212 because I could have repowererd with higher horsepower diesels with a ton more tourqe but they still only turned at 3600 rpm. To go faster I would have to switch to the new mercruiser diesel that turned at 4600 I believe. 
  • 04FV270riverrat04FV270riverrat Member Posts: 268 ✭✭✭
    Had a buddy here in Kentucky that slap a pro charger on his 23 ft Baja, it would run up around 75-80 but only for about a minute then it would build up too much manifold pressure and he’d have to back off it, seemed like a waster to me since he couldn’t run in long
  • halifax212halifax212 Member Posts: 553 ✭✭✭
    Better have deep pockets playing that game.
  • JoeStangJoeStang Member Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, better build the engine with better internals to get any reliable benefit with that. I'd love my 276 cuddy to have 500hp, but how long would you be able to cruise at 4k rpm without burning it up? Right now I can go WOT forever and not hurt a **** thing.
    2013 276 Cuddy ~ 350 MAG / B3
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    JoeStang said:
    Yeah, better build the engine with better internals to get any reliable benefit with that. I'd love my 276 cuddy to have 500hp, but how long would you be able to cruise at 4k rpm without burning it up? Right now I can go WOT forever and not hurt a **** thing.
    funny thing about that is Mercruiser engines, or 'marine grade':  they are sought after around here for 1/4 cars as the bottom end is supposedly already pretty stout, and good for two times or more the passes you can get out of a standard engine's bottom end... we're talking max RPM and three atmosphere's of boost before the giggling gas, but we're also NOT talking the exponential load a marine engine endures on water as opposed to land. 

    something that would be nice on a marine engine, i'm thinking, would be boost in the form of S/C (turbo is too tricky on marine gas engines due to heat and plumbing) that has a helm controlled wastegate or blow off- allowing the captain to allow the boost in circumstances that require it... this, of course, is directly related to my long held belief that speed gets you out of trouble at least as often as it gets you in to trouble if you're a reasonable operator to begin with. ... of course this could be accomplished with a 200 shot of gas too, and a LOT easier. 

    to you point, though- the valve train is the weakness, and would have to be dialed to allow much more than 4800~5200RPM- (likely up to 6500RPM to make best use) and the out drive will have to be beefed too in order to handle the greater RPM's/load at the prop.... valve train being fairly easy to do, outdrive being difficult. 
  • JoeStangJoeStang Member Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭✭
    Maybe the older Merc stuff is stronger than OEM GM, but isnt the 350 Mag cast crank, powdered rods, and hyper pistons? If so thats not much more usable HP ceiling than stock hp levels.
    2013 276 Cuddy ~ 350 MAG / B3
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    agreed, but... stock potential is a lot more than it used to be unto itself... for instance, i have a 5.3 L33 sitting in a 2010 tahoe ltx that is about to be introduced to a whipple twin screw- that is 315hp and 330tq's peak right now at the crank (published NOT dyno'd), and should sniff 515hp and a touch over 600tq at the crank after 9# of boost... which i thought was madness on an otherwise stock system (no camshaft swap, no headers, stock stamped rockers, even re-utilizing the e85 eco injectors) but apparently these engines (rotating assembly+heads and all the above addressed) can handle 800 to 1100 ponies before they start struggling... this is a FAR cry from the windsor (ford, i know, apples/oranges) that split at just over 400hp from a factory 305hp...
    there is a guy who actually went for broke to see how much he could get out of an OE built lower, and started with a 150k mile L33... he broke a valve off at north of 1400HP (crank)- thought it had full out blown, but realized while beginning the tear down what had happened.... he simply swapped out the offender and hooked it back up to the dyno and made several more runs above 1k hp before losing interest and moving on to the next project. 

    that is absolutely crazy to me, but then again having a street-able 'daily driver' car above 700 ponies was unheard of when i first started playing this game, too.  
  • F1100F1100 Member Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    5psi of boost on these small blocks is nothing, and stock OEM internals can handle them easy.

    1993 300 FIESTA VEE TWIN 5.7L ALPHA GEN 2
  • 69fastback69fastback Member Posts: 948 ✭✭✭
    As someone who has two pretty high powered cars, I like my boat stock. 
  • JoeStangJoeStang Member Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭✭
    212 I'm no SBC expert, but the new gen 5.3 is NOT directly comparable to the older school 350 block and internals. 

    What kind of internals does the L33 have? All forged I'm guessing based on those HP numbers. 
    2013 276 Cuddy ~ 350 MAG / B3
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know for sure about internals, plainly said... Conflicting reports and I haven't matched numbers yet.  450rwhp is common with them, though, w/ just boost of some flavor. 400 crank poinies n/a with just cam, heads, headers and intake manifold... 700 reliable ponies can be had for a daily driver w/o near the effort of an old sbc if you address piston, rings, and boost with all the above. I'm an old shade tree, and in the eighties or even nineties that couldn't be done short of big blocks, reckless tuning, and huge roots blowers, and turbos were too tricky on lag and documenting fuel demands when/where.. Not near as easy as googling up help like can be done now.... Now 700 ponies is simple and as reliable as even mildly built engines back then. It amazes me . 
  • 69fastback69fastback Member Posts: 948 ✭✭✭
    L33 does not have forged internals. Horsepower is easy today. My SBF in my ‘69 Mustang has been 9.62@140 on pump gas, with a hydraulic cam, and it has a cast crank and rods with forged pistons. At 3280 lb race weight, it’s making around 800.   I built a turbo kit for my friends ‘17 Mustang. It has stock cams, Crower rods, forged pistons, and a stock crank. It made 983 rwhp on e85. Pretty impressive for a stock valvetrain car that runs and drives like it’s all stock. 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ... and to add, @69fastback , these newer engines doing it with boost not only produce more peak, but add across the entire curve flattening it tremendously... i know it's apples to trees, but a 6.4PSD i sold sometime back turned 1187# of TQ peak, and was over 1k for almost 2k rpm range, breaking into 4 digits just over 2500RPM.... piazioelectric (sp?) injectors, crazy fuel pressure at the rail (I've seen 30k psi with it before) and compounding variable grade turbo's- things difficult to pull off without a computer and tuning capability unheard of prior to OBDII, which is why i offered it up.  wide band o2's have been around a long time, but crossing zero and 'minute lambda changes' changed that entire landscape- that is done with dialing in on a 'puter. 
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Or just for Handy:  twin 12 cyl Mans, 4 turbos, surface drives. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For Handy!

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • mattiemattie Member Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭✭
    Surface drives are sooo cool. Dog outta the hole, rippin up top!
    Think that’s a hydro gang plank?
    246BR, 276BR, H310BR current
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,552 mod
    shawnmjr said:
    Is is that a hydraulic swim ladder?

    It's a passerelle.  Most European boats have them for getting on/off the boats.  A buddy of mine had one on his 460 Prestige when my kids were younger.  The kids used it as a diving board (an expensive one! :) )

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yup. Hyd boarding plank. 

    Those surface drives are cool. Really poor for docking, hence the bow and stern thrusters. Goes like a rocket I’m told...near 50mph. Very thirsty boat too. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's crazy sweet power!! 1800hp 
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
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