Confused About Battery Switches

SteveandhisRinker280

I have 2008 280EC.  It has a generator onboard.  There are two batteries on board- one Group 24 dual purpose, on group 27 deep cycle 125 AH.  I have two battery switches.  The first switch (on the OEM panel) is labeled. "Engine and House."  It is three position switch: Off, On, Combine.  The second switch is labeled, "Generator."  It is a two position switch: On, Off.  There are two cables on each terminal on the dual battery, on cable on each terminal for the deep cycle.

If I turn the "Engine and House" switch to ON, I assume both batteries come on but are isolated from each other with one powering the Engine, ignition and other gages, and the other the house.  If I turn it to combine, my assumption is that it connects the two batteries in parallel so that the house battery can aid in starting the engine if the engine battery is too discharge to crank the engine.  The generator switch does nothing but shut off power to the generator.  The generator has power when its switch is on, even when the engine and house switch is off.  Also why did they install a switch only to disconnect the generator from power?  Is the generator a significant load when not running?  Also which battery is the generator connected to, engine, house, or both? 

I would like to have the Engine Battery on one switch that is Off, On, Combine.  And I would like to have the House Battery and Generator on a simple On, Off switch. (I am sure the deep cycle could crank the generator)  But before I mess with rewiring anything I am wondering if anyone knows if there a specific reason it is wired to have both batteries on or off, and no option to turn off the engine battery when anchored. Also why is the does the generator need a stand-alone switch?  

I have seen a panel wiring diagram, but the one I saw has a four position switch: On, Batt 1, Batt 2, Both, and does not have a generator switch.  Does anyone have a diagram that includes the switches that I have described? 

Aqua_Aura

The wiring diagrams are available on the forum if you search. I downloaded them for my 280 and they are very descriptive for each electrical system.

I was under the assumption that battery 1 ran everything except the generator and then if you drain battery 1 you can still start the engine by turning the switch to combine or starting the generator and charging battery 1. 

SteveandhisRinker280

thanks for the response.  I think your assumption is logical for not getting stuck, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having two different types of batteries?  The start battery is very heavy load for short bursts and rapid charge.  The deep cycle is relatively light loads for a long time.  More to the point, I hope it doesn't work as you describe because I paid a lot of money for deep cycle high amp hour battery that would be nothing more under your assumption than waiting for the much cheaper start battery to inevitably die while powering the house for a couple of hours with the engine off and fridge on.   Ugh.

Aqua_Aura

My battery 1 is a large capacity deep cycle with start capability and my 2 battery is basically just a start battery for the generator or engine if needed. You could swap your deep cycle into position 1 if it has the cranking amps to start the engine. 

reneechris14

@SteveandhisRinker280 run bat #1 when you run and when you stop to chill for a while switch to bat #2

Cableguy Greg

On the 2008 280EC, there is a new style switch. The switch is labeled "Off-On-Emergency". In the off position, all batteries are off. In the on position, house batteries and starting batteries are on. In Emergency, all batteries are on, but combined for an emergency start. Both banks are kept separate except for the emergency position. When at anchor, the engine battery has almost no draw on it, so there is no reason to turn it off. When I went to the Chesapeake a few weeks ago, I was anchored for 2 1/2 days and the engine battery started the boat with no problems. The engine battery is for the engine only. The house battery or batteries only runs the house circuit. That is the stereo, fridges, lights, etc. On my 280EC, I have 2 deep cycle batteries on the house bank and one starting battery on the engine side. The way that the boat is wired simplifies the trouble shooting of any electrical problems. The genny switch turns the power from the genny from the starting battery on or off. You probably could add another starting battery for the genny, but I wouldn't want the extra weight on that side of the boat.

If this doesn't make sense, I can got into more detail if you would like. There is a complete set of wiring diagrams for the 280EC on this site. I have used it multiple times to track down circuits.

SteveandhisRinker280

Cableguy Greg.  You're explanation makes sense.  That is how I thought it was wired.  I was actually an electrician in the Navy years ago, so I have a relatively decent understanding of DC circuits.

I think I have at least narrowed my problem of having the engine battery discharge.  I disconnected the neg cable on the start battery and ensured that all systems were off.  I then connected my amp meter between the cable and neg terminal.  the draw was less than .05 A.  turning the generator switch on to supply power to the generator, the draw was 2.6 amps.   Seems like a big draw for doing so little, but maybe normal and the reason for the generator switch on the battery panel?  But I have also heard that allowing the generator controller to experience the lower voltage associated with a slowing dying battery, or a bad battery cell or two, can damage the electronics in the controller and that is the reason for the switch...

I am going to look for a parasite load in the generator power wiring, if I can't find it, or the draw is normal, at least there is already a switch to solve the problem!  If I find that it is a parasite load, I will post what I find.

I did a few other amp draw tests too.  Interestingly my stereo amp is on the house circuit, and my stereo head unit was powered on the engine battery circuit run through the ignition accessory switch.  I changed that already.  Also if you power any additional cockpit electronics, fish finder, chart plotter, fuel rate gage, or whatever your pleasure, from the cockpit panel, I suggest you make sure you turn those off when on the hook as their amperages are near constant draws of a few amps and can add up to be real power drain over a weekend on the hook.

Pulling out of the slip this morning onto the San Francisco Bay!  Lots of dock and dines here, but surprising few gas stations on the big bay....  Happy Boating!

Phillip

I have a 1998 272 captiva. No owners manual. My  batteries keep on dying I have replaced both batteries and within one week they’re both dead what setting do I turn to to start the boat I have home boat and another I can’t read please help new boat owner 

Aqua_Aura

https://rinkerboats.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/3038/280-ec-wiring-diagram

aero3113

@Phillip FYI: your refrigerator most likely works on AC and DC current. If your not plugged into shore power it will drain the batteries if you don’t turn it off.

Aqua_Aura

I am more confused now by that explanation. Does switch 1 turn on house and starting battery but they are two seperate batteries? Switch 2 is just to connect the generator and start it?

Cableguy Greg

Aqua_Aura said:

I am more confused now by that explanation. Does switch 1 turn on house and starting battery but they are two seperate batteries? Switch 2 is just to connect the generator and start it?

On this particular boat, the switch is a double switch where it controls two separate banks in one switch. The on off function turns both banks on or off. When you switch to the third position labeled combine or emergency, it combines both banks for an emergency start. The other switch is just for the generator starting battery. 

Thell

Cableguy Greg said:

On the 2008 280EC, there is a new style switch. The switch is labeled "Off-On-Emergency". In the off position, all batteries are off. In the on position, house batteries and starting batteries are on. In Emergency, all batteries are on, but combined for an emergency start. Both banks are kept separate except for the emergency position. When at anchor, the engine battery has almost no draw on it, so there is no reason to turn it off. When I went to the Chesapeake a few weeks ago, I was anchored for 2 1/2 days and the engine battery started the boat with no problems. The engine battery is for the engine only. The house battery or batteries only runs the house circuit. That is the stereo, fridges, lights, etc. On my 280EC, I have 2 deep cycle batteries on the house bank and one starting battery on the engine side. The way that the boat is wired simplifies the trouble shooting of any electrical problems. The genny switch turns the power from the genny from the starting battery on or off. You probably could add another starting battery for the genny, but I wouldn't want the extra weight on that side of the boat.

If this doesn't make sense, I can got into more detail if you would like. There is a complete set of wiring diagrams for the 280EC on this site. I have used it multiple times to track down circuits.

Hi, I have a question around this. I have a 280EC 2008. My batteries was changes by a marina and when I look at my before and after pictures I see that they have changed the wiring. If you look at the pictures attached, the one with the blue batteries are the original and the black are the new. You can se that the red power with 2 cables connected now goes to a different battery and the + connection between the "big" blue and the small blue are also changed. My question is, can you determine from the pictures what battery is the starter and what is the house? 

Before:


After:

PickleRick

The big moll battery is the starter battery. The 2 little ones are deep cell house.  

The moll battery says start on it 😄

Also, is that a diesel volvo i see?

Thell

Hi, Thank you.

Yes I know it says start battery but I do think they are wrongly connected because if that the start start battery, then why is that battery connected to one of the small ones? This is why I think they have a misstake when the connected the new ones. Do I make any sense? :-)

Yes, it a Volvo Penta D4 - 300

Dream_Inn

Wow! @Handymans342 - Did you see this??  A diesel in a 280!  Very nice @Thell !

I do agree that a start battery should not be wired to another battery.

PickleRick

It looks like in the original the starting battery is also wired into one of the small house batteries, only it was the end one rather than the center one.

Maybe that big diesel needs more starting amps?  Many diesels carry 2 starting batteries, wired just like that.  

Id probably habe put 2 agm batteries for the starter, both group 31.  They are good multi use batteries, both deep cell and starting.  

Gas engines have 150 to 195 psi compression,  you have 350 to 450 psi compression.  These numbers are off the top of my head so not 100% accurate but close enough for you to get the point, diesels need amps to start.  Especially if its an idi diesel in any cool weather.

Nice motor, its unanimous on here, diesels are best!!   

raybo3

@PickleRick how did you come to the conclusion that "its unanimous on here, diesels are best"? That's the furthest from the truth........... Just say'n

PickleRick

Handy hasn't been around to push the oil burner agenda, someone had to say it 😝😝😝

Cableguy Greg

On the 280EC, the starting battery should be the one furthest aft. The house battery was the forward one. If you have a genny, it should start off the starting battery. 

aero3113

Yes, I would think that your starting battery should be aft, closer to the starter (that’s how my boat is set up).

aero3113

Also, on my 330 the battery trays are different sizes. Smaller tray for the starting batteries and larger for the house batteries. It’s hard to tell from your picture, are they different sizes?

Aqua_Aura

I'm glad this got brought up again because o forgot after last time that I need to swap my batteries. 

PickleRick

Keep in mind a diesel will require more starting amps than even the big block gasser, it doesn't look like he has room for the group 31 sitting aft.  A foot or even few foot difference in battery cable legnth makes no difference if proper gauge wire is used.  

In Isuzu cab over trucks the batteries are several feet from the motor on both the 6 cylinder diesels and the chevy v8.

rasbury

I never got past how clean it was down there!

Thell

Cableguy Greg said:

On the 280EC, the starting battery should be the one furthest aft. The house battery was the forward one. If you have a genny, it should start off the starting battery. 

Thank you. I would say that that's the way the before picture shows BUT the previous owner added a house battery even further aft of the start battery. Yes I have a genny.

 

Cableguy Greg

Thell said:

Cableguy Greg said:

On the 280EC, the starting battery should be the one furthest aft. The house battery was the forward one. If you have a genny, it should start off the starting battery. 

Thank you. I would say that that's the way the before picture shows BUT the previous owner added a house battery even further aft of the start battery. Yes I have a genny.

 

I will get you a picture of my batteries the next time I am at the boat. 

Thell

Thanks. :-)