Fuel injector cleaning / flow check

aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just curious if anyone has removed their injectors and sent them out to be cleaned and flow checked? It seems like it could be a good preventative maintenance item. I saw some pricing online for about $12-$15 per injector, including all new seals.
2008 330EC
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Comments

  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I did that on a 7.4. Well worth it
  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PO of my boat said he did it and it made a big difference.
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They recommend this to be done every 300 hours or every 3-4 years.

    https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2017/december/cleaning-marine-fuel-injectors.asp


    2008 330EC
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Pawcatuck river CTMember Posts: 3,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When I bought my 342 I did all 16 injectors new keep the old ones thinking of having them cleaned. Will do some day. It did change the performance of the boat so much I tought I would have to reprop the boat. At a $120 per motor it would be money well spent.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Pawcatuck river CTMember Posts: 3,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @rasbury this a solution to poping and back firing. After you try plugs....
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Just when I thought I was pretty much finished with my list of things to get done! LoL!! 
    2008 330EC
  • WillhoundWillhound Lake Simcoe, Ontario, CanadaMember Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    aero3113 said:
    Just when I thought I was pretty much finished with my list of things to get done! LoL!! 
    It never ends. If you ever do get to the end of the list it'll be time to start all over again.
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you guys use a local shop or send them out somewhere?
    2008 330EC
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Willhound said:
    aero3113 said:
    Just when I thought I was pretty much finished with my list of things to get done! LoL!! 
    It never ends. If you ever do get to the end of the list it'll be time to start all over again.
    Are you reading my mind??
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Supposedly Quicksilver Quickeeln works wonders on fuel systems. Maybe I’ll run this in spring instead and save some $ for other projects. 

    Quicksilver 8M0058681 Quickleen Engine & Fuel System Cleaner 32 Oz. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BO8A2P0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_TYocEbR65H7ZV
    2008 330EC
  • PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,364 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    I just cleaned injectors on a 96 volvo 850 last week. Been sitting for years.

    Remove each injector one at a time.

    Verify what volt they operate.  Some Hondas are 1.5 v and volvo was 12v.  They don't have constant power they have on/off pulses of power.  

    I first cleaned the body of the injectors and the fuel inlet screen.  Google a break down of your injector as not all come apart the same.

    I attached a few inches of hose to the inlet of injector and out gently in vice.

    I then fill the clear hose with carb cleaned.  I then apply power to the injector.  Once power is applied i push about 40 psi of air through the injector looking for a fine even mist.  This isnt a precise cleaning method a pro injector shop would use but it has worked for me over the years.

    Repeat until you get a good even flow from each injector.  
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganMember Posts: 5,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    212rowboat had some postings on this and flow rate matching. He can chime in on what business he used. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bruce @ https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/ ... he not only will clean them with ultrasonic cleaner, he'll flow test them to matching cc's per min.   or, you can just swap them out for a benched duplicate set.   be careful 'home' cleaning these things, as the slightest alteration of inlet can dramatically impact flow as well as pattern- which is just as important.

    let's say you have a set of ford racing four hole sprayers designed for 39# pressure and 'delivering' 24#... that is around 252ccpm.  fuel is atomized into a fine mist, which means you can retard your fuel sync a degree or two and miss the design of 'pencil' spraying the back of a hot valve to assist in the atomization... slightly increases throttle response and bumps economy- but that same injector balanced perfectly at 39#'s bumped to 44#'s or dropped to 36#'s?  no bueno... any advantage is lost. 

    atop that, fuel pressure may be balls on, but one injector has a larger orifice due to 'cleaning'- the fuel pressure may be right and tight on closed injectors (i think merc's are either 34# or 36#'s) when the gate opens on the reamed injector the pressure drops and you'll get a contribution imbalance that is a MONSTER to track down. 

    it isn't that expensive... get it professionally done... ALL that said, it's highly unlikely anything is wrong with your injectors unless you are running questionable fuel... which is more likely in a boat than a car, but still just not that likely.  if you KNOW your injectors are good and well balanced for flow, you can again retard the fuel sync ever so slightly- like 3* max- and you'll be impressed at the perceived difference, most noticeable off the line or out of the hole.  all you'll really have done is kick things off a little lower than usual, but... that's where we need it most. 
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @rowboat212 do they use gasoline to test flow and pattern? 

    Also explain the difference if any with diesel injectors. 

    Thanks
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yeah he has a nifty little machine that does it.. it has a window a person can visually see the spray.  

    diesel injectors are a completely different animal.  they 'were' mechanical which is to say without electronic controls.. i think your yanmars were equipped like that.  they went through an evolution of HEUI types- where fuel is delivered to them and the injector itself (using a piston) created the pressure required... then, and this is pretty slick, they moved toward piezoelectric controlled injectors... the central fuel pump provides pressure to the fuel rail (common rail, much like gassers) and at silly high pressures- and the injector works with the same concept of a gasser as a 'gate keeper'.  the actuation, though, is where the magic is- they have a tiny lever in them and a stack of material below them with the piezolectric charge- when the charge snaps the lever opens the gates of the injector and relies on 'duty cycle' to allow whatever volume of fuel past it.   the difference between piezoelectric of diesels and solenoid of gassers is reaction time... with the piezoelectric they are FAST... like, some diesels can have as many as seven injection events on a single cycle, chasing the piston all the way to the bottom of the stroke increasing torque tremendously.  most diesel injectors rely on the diesel itself for cooling and lubrication- so the ULSD diesel is tough on them without lubricity added to it... and, those tiny gates rely on a 'padding' of fluid (diesel) to keep hard surfaces from colliding- running them dry can wreck them quickly.   

    i've always had good resutls from FiveOh and with Bruce.  the guy knows his business thoroughly.  off the top of his head he can offer which injectors at what pressures can be interchanged, or what common cam swap (increasing flow) on what engine requires what injectors.... he prefers to speak in cc's and pressure which is more precise than the 'pounds' and emerging industry standard for rating of 43# of rail pressure.  he can tell you which patterns are better for which engine and mods... he really knows what he's talking about. 
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So I guess when you chip a diesel truck it changes all those patterns in the injector too?
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭✭✭
    that's the primary task it performs... diesel is all about fuel delivery- and matching air so as not to turn those injectors into tiny cutting torches. 

    with the HEUI style, people put 'tips' on them to increase delivery.  clumsy, but it worked.  when the common rail high pressure fuel systems arrived, and the piezoelectric injectors were introduced- the magic really started.. instead of opening the pulse width (duty cycle; amount of time injector is open) wider and seeing a lot of un-burnt fuel (black smoke), you started seeing additional injection events- spitting into cylinder prior to traditional events- and then literally adding to the fire at TDC, and then 'chasing' the piston south in a post power stroke injection event.. varying volumes of delivery on each event (programming different pulse widths for each event) and kaboom- an engine delivered from the factory delivering 325hp and 600#tq would now, and easily, produce 500hp and north of 800#tq- simply with an alternate tune on the PCM. 

    chips are a thing of the past, too... dangerous with the more sophisticated fuel systems of today's trucks. 

    of course to get the most, it's about balance.  without the air passing through that engine to match the increased fuel, you're generating ridiculous amounts of heat.  'clearer' exhaust systems and heavier turbos, and freakin beach ball size filters matching larger air box's, and same engine with same tune now near 700hp likely, and pushing 1k#tq.
  • WillhoundWillhound Lake Simcoe, Ontario, CanadaMember Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Willhound said:
    aero3113 said:
    Just when I thought I was pretty much finished with my list of things to get done! LoL!! 
    It never ends. If you ever do get to the end of the list it'll be time to start all over again.
    Are you reading my mind??
    Now that's a scary thought! Nope. Just a realist. And a bit of a fun poke.
    "Knot Quite Shore" - 2000 FV270
  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @aero3113 did you do this?

    I ran some STP through and now my starboard engine is burning more fuel than port. Figure I have a bunked up injector. 

    Anyone know where I can find new injectors at a fair price? I don’t need fancy flow matched racing injectors. 
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, but I just ran Quicksilver Quick Kleen last week and I think I don’t have my throttle split anymore and the boat seemed to be running very smooth. I’m curious how she’s going to run next time out.

    https://www.westmarine.com/buy/quicksilver--quickleen-engine-fuel-system-cleaner--12419594?gclid=CjwKCAjw5s6WBhA4EiwACGncZRkDWa52RFiOrgmEaBfSKPao_klieYdqVqENyrQJSWkBiOP7Zz7KvRoCkaEQAvD_BwE

    2008 330EC
  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will give that a shot. I pulled my plugs today and all look the same so I’m ruling out plugs/wires. Wondering about injectors or MAP sensor now. Might swap the MAPs between motors. 
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Curious if it will help….
    2008 330EC
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I’ve read nothing but good things about Quick Kleen.
    2008 330EC
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Member Posts: 3,978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Never tried quicksilver quick kleen but I know several mechanics here swear by it for gas engines. 
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ordered four bottles. Should I run the fuel line into a jerry can and send through a high concentration of this magic juice? 
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I overdosed my tanks by a few ounces. If you want you can but probably not needed.
    2008 330EC
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @YYZRC are you going to put all four bottles in?
    2008 330EC
  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    Absolutely.  Hoping the juice arrives in time for the weekend.  My tanks are down to about 1/3 so nice and potent.

    In the meantime I am trying to track down the MAP sensor to swap between engines.  Any idea where it is??

    Edit: found it. 


    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always thought the MAP sensor was down low 🤷🏻‍♂️
    2008 330EC
  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
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