Newbie Needs Help understanding the electrical system in my 400 EC, Batteries dying/ignition switch

JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
We've had our 2010 400 EC with hard top for 2 years now and we love it. However, several aspects of the electrical system do not make sense to me. My port key is incapable of being turned to "ACC." My 2 house batteries go into brownout mode after a few hours when I'm running lights, radio, pressurized water and toilet. We also have a day boat that has pressurized water and we haven't come close to killing one battery with a full day of use. 

1. My port key is incapable of being turned to "ACC."  Like a car key, it seems that turning the key to the left to ACC to run the radio won't kill your car battery, but my key simply can't be turned to the left even though the face plate has a position for ACC. My stereo will NOT even work unless I turn the port key to the "ON" position for the whole day. Like a car, the battery would die quickly if you did the same in your car. See photo. I'll try to upload a video.

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  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    This site won't let my upload the video.

    2. Other items draw power even though they are not turned on. Here's a photo of my cockpit fridge light on despite all the interior power panel switches being off. Same with my TV1 satellite dome. I was laying on top of my hard top in the yard to remove shrink wrap when I heard the sat dish humming periodically, looking for a better sat signal, even though all switches were off. The ONLY way I could get it to stop drawing power was to unplug the coax cable up on the hard top immediately under the dome. Again, all interior panel switches were off. Only the battery switches were on.


  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    3. My shore power selector only works in the Starboard position. It doesn't work in the Port position. Should it? What's the difference between Line 1 and Line 2? Should I be alternating 50/50 between lines 1 and 2 regarding charge time? Should I be labeling my 2 30amp shore power cords to coordinate with their respective outlets? Or does this bear no relation at all? Sorry for the dumb questions. See photo.


  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    4. We boat in an unclean river with debris, many times tied to a sea wall in shallow water, so I have resisted running the generator because the filter screen clogs and I don't want to interrupt the party with the inconvenience of opening the engine hatch. Because of the above problems, I've had to run my Generator more than I'd like, but even then, my generator consistently quits after 2-3 hours giving the code UV, or Under Voltage. Strangely, my owners manual doesn't explain what this means or how to remedy this problem. Turn on more power draws like the AC and TVs? Is it possible the generator is generating TOO much excess power? Does the generator burn the same amount of gas no matter the power draw? Or burn as much gas as is demanded for the amount of power? My generator refuses to restart again until it cools off even after climbing down in the hatch for a manual reset. It attepmts to turn over, then gives the UV code. Please help. Thank you!


  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    There are no dumb questions!

    My switches don't go to ACC.  Only On and Start.  You have to turn it to "on" to run the stereo, and you can leave it all day.  

    The biggest draw on batteries at anchor is refrigerators.  Cabin lights can also draw a fair amount, so it's best to leave them off when not using them.  If your batteries aren't lasting, you might need to replace them.  They will last 3-4 years in normal use.

    Line 1 is the supply for house power (battery charger, fridges, water heater, etc.).  Line 2 runs the air conditioner.

    The Line 1/2 toggle switch has no effect on charging.  It only determines which line is shown on the volt meter at the top left.  You can leave it in either position.  

    Do you have two sets of shore power power inlet plugs?  One at the stern and one at the bow?  The port/stbd switch determines which set is connected.  
  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    I see said the blind man! Yes, we have 2 sets of power inlets and we only used the bow set, so that must be starboard. I bought the boat at end of season a few years ago. The first spring, I assumed the batteries were dead due to the previous owner and replaced with new. The second spring, the new batteries were also dead despite the battery switches being off, but the yard guys can be a little sloppy so who knows if they drained them before winter. I replaced them again with new so it will be interesting to see what happens this spring. The strangest thing is the cockpit fridge and TV sat dish still drawing power when switches are off. That sounds like they are wired wrong?
  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    Here's my battery setup in case there's something to improve there.

  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    The fridges are powered by shore power when you are plugged in.  When not on shore power, they draw from the house batteries.  The only way to turn them totally off is turn the knob inside the fridge until the light turns off.  

    The two green Duracels say "cranking" so I assume they are the starter batteries.  The black ones look like they are wired in parallel to each other, so that's the house bank.  Make sure they are deep cycle batteries, not cranking batteries.  Also check the cables to make sure there's no corrosion between the cable clamp and the battery post, and the clamps are good and tight.  

    Your batteries definitely should not go bad after one season.  I wonder if your charger is dying.  In the photo, you are plugged into shore power, and the charger is turned on, but you are only showing 11 volts in the DC volt meter at top right.  The charger should be pushing 13 volts when it's charging.  Chargers seem to fail after about 10-12 years, but maybe yours died early.  
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    It's possible the sat dish is wired wrong.  The installer might have grabbed the nearest 12 volt feed rather than running a dedicated wire.  A sat dish is not essential safety gear, so you'd want a switch to turn it off.  (For example, a GPS antenna connected to a VHF radio would be considered safety gear, and might be wired as always-on.)
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    Generator:  your hour meter says 59 hours.  On a 2010 boat, that's less than 6 hours per year.  Ironically, your generator problems might be caused by not running it often enough.  

    You should run the genny under load for at least 15 minutes at least once a month, preferably every two weeks.  Let it warm up, and then turn on the AC and water heater to give it some exercise.  

    Do that once a week for the first couple months of the season, and see if the problems go away.  

    When you are using the generator, it's fine to run it with a light load.  Diesel gennys don't like that, but it's fine for yours.  If that's a 5-kilowatt generator, it can run the charger, fridges, AC and water heater all at the same time.  Might have to turn off the water heater if you want to run the microwave.  
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    Oh, right - on a 400 with two air conditioners, you probably have a 7kw generator.  

    BTW if your charger is dead, it means the only time you are charging the batteries is when the engines are running.  That would explain why they don't take a charge.  When you unplug shore power after running the charger overnight, the DC volt meter should read at least 12 volts.  
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Member Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Regarding the shore power inlets there should be an automatic switch that senses which inlet you connected shore power to. Some of these auto switches take several seconds to sense power and switch to the new inlet. They need to make sure you won’t try to send power from both sides and fry your boat. Give it another try and give it 5-10 seconds to switch over...
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Member Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ignore my comment, just looked at the pic of your board and you have manual switch from port to starboard inlet. Maybe a bad ground or corrosion... 
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    On my 342 if I turn both battery switches off I have to filp the breakers label helm and house(cabin) to off in the panel where switches are to shut down power to all things. The panel down in the cabin will read voltage if left on. The other is ( not positive about this but)battery switches need to be on for the charger to get to the battery, the chager is wired to the isolator then goes to the switch.
     The genny will burn gas as the demand comes to it, you will hear it when the load comes to it.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,661 mod
    Welcome to the forum.  I have a 2008 400 and it is a great boat.  I believe LaRea has covered your questions, but feel free to ask more.  

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    LaRea said:
    The fridges are powered by shore power when you are plugged in.  When not on shore power, they draw from the house batteries.  The only way to turn them totally off is turn the knob inside the fridge until the light turns off.  

    The two green Duracels say "cranking" so I assume they are the starter batteries.  The black ones look like they are wired in parallel to each other, so that's the house bank.  Make sure they are deep cycle batteries, not cranking batteries.  Also check the cables to make sure there's no corrosion between the cable clamp and the battery post, and the clamps are good and tight.  

    Your batteries definitely should not go bad after one season.  I wonder if your charger is dying.  In the photo, you are plugged into shore power, and the charger is turned on, but you are only showing 11 volts in the DC volt meter at top right.  The charger should be pushing 13 volts when it's charging.  Chargers seem to fail after about 10-12 years, but maybe yours died early.  

    Thanks for the info about the fridges. I can understand the need to turn the cockpit fridge off with the knob, but the salon fridge has a dedicated Fridge switch in the panel. Does the panel switch turn that one off or do I still need to turn the knob inside the salon fridge? 

    The boat came with a sat dome whose technology was obsolete, so I bought the new TV1. The installer said he replaced the wiring but just used the same route as the old connections when I questioned him about the power draw. Do you happen to know if sat domes came standard on Rinker 400 ECs? I'm guessing no, and the installer may have routed the wiring less than ideal config. Do you know into which aux panel switch it SHOULD be wired?
  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    LaRea said:
    Oh, right - on a 400 with two air conditioners, you probably have a 7kw generator.  

    BTW if your charger is dead, it means the only time you are charging the batteries is when the engines are running.  That would explain why they don't take a charge.  When you unplug shore power after running the charger overnight, the DC volt meter should read at least 12 volts.  

    Yes, it's 7 or 8 kw genny.

    So, can chargers slowly lose their ability to charge? Or is it alive one day, then dead the next?
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    They usually just die.  Watch the DC volts meter (top right) and see what happens when you turn the charger on and off.  It should move the needle. 

    Then go in the engine room and look at the current meter on the front of the charger itself.  (I'm assuming you still have the original charger.)  When the charger is on, it should show at least 4-5 amps, and you might hear the fan running.  
  • Cableguy GregCableguy Greg Member Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jodijoe said:
    Here's my battery setup in case there's something to improve there.


    Joe, Those battery terminals need cleaned up. The corrosion could cause an issue. Also, the positive terminals need to be covered. Fox Chapel should know better of they are maintaining your boat. If you were to stopped by the USCG, they would gig you for having the positives uncovered. I would consider adding a 3rd house battery. Replace all of the house batteries at the same time so you know the age of the batteries. Consider AGM batteries. @Dream_Inn , how many house batteries do you have on your 400?
    2008 280 Express Cruiser, 6.2MPI, B3, Pittsburgh, PA "Blue Ayes"
    Go Steelers!!!
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,661 mod
    @Cableguy Greg I have two of the TPPL batteries for my house batteries.  Never been a problem.  I do not believe a 3rd house battery is needed.

    The 400 does not come with a SAT dome.  The fridge in salon, yes you have to turn of breaker at panel (that is for AC only) and then switch in fridge too. 

    I believe LaRea is on to something for the charger.  It definitely sounds like that could be the problem.  I replaced mine a few years ago with something much better than what came with the boat.  It makes a huge difference!

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    There's one more thing that will help your house bank perform better.  The left battery is hooked to the right battery with red/black wires.  And the right battery has red/black wires going to the charger/load ... that works, but it would be better to connect one of them to the left battery.  


  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    Dream_Inn said:
    @Cableguy Greg I have two of the TPPL batteries for my house batteries.  Never been a problem.  I do not believe a 3rd house battery is needed.

    The 400 does not come with a SAT dome.  The fridge in salon, yes you have to turn of breaker at panel (that is for AC only) and then switch in fridge too. 

    I believe LaRea is on to something for the charger.  It definitely sounds like that could be the problem.  I replaced mine a few years ago with something much better than what came with the boat.  It makes a huge difference!

    Ok then the aftermarket sat dome was not wired correctly. Thanks for the info!

    I just thought of one more thing: my cockpit ice maker has never worked, but could it still be calling for power? Do you know if it is rigged just like the fridges where the dial needs to be turned off? We don't use it since we don't replenish the house water often enough to stay fresh.

    Any specifics regarding how many amps/volts/watts/dual 30 amp shore power cords I should buy to replace the old one?

    Thank you all!
  • aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Jodijoe , there’s an on/off switch on the front of the ice maker. There’s a half moon on top of the grill that you can stick your finger in and turn it on. If it’s not the switch it’s possible it became unplugged behind the unit.
    2008 330EC
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    The ice maker doesn't run on batteries ... only on shore power or generator.  Even if you don't use it to make ice, you can still use it as a freezer for bag ice, and a lot of people do just that.  

    @aero3113 is probably right:  the front switch is turned off, or the plug has come loose. 

    Cordsets:  any marine-rated 30-amp cordset will do.  A lot of forum members use the Marinco EEL.  It's much easier and faster to connect/disconnect than the traditional screw-on type.  Literally five seconds to connect it.  For example:

    https://www.westmarine.com/buy/marinco--25-eel-shorepower-cordset-30a-125v-yellow--12998472
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    You probably understand the difference between AC power and DC power, but just for the sake of completeness ...  

    AC (alternating current, 120 volts) is shore power or generator power.  DC (direct current, 12 volts) is battery power.  On your breaker panel, the left side runs the AC system and the right side runs the DC system.  

    High-power components run only on AC power:  air conditioners, ice maker, water heater, microwave, vacuum, battery chargers.  

    The rest of the boat runs on 12 volts DC:  navigation, stereo, lights, heads, fresh water pump and so forth.  The refrigerators run on DC too, but they automatically switch to AC when it's available.

    When you have AC power, the voltage is always around 110 to 120 volts.  It stays pretty constant.  

    DC power starts off around 13 volts when the battery bank is fully charged.  The voltage gradually drops as the batteries discharge.  When it gets below 11 volts, you'll notice it ... dim lights, stereo clipping, fridges not as cold.  That's when you need to crank up the generator and run the battery charger.  You should be able to go 6-8 hours at a time before running the generator.  
  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    LaRea said:
    DC power starts off around 13 volts when the battery bank is fully charged.  The voltage gradually drops as the batteries discharge.  When it gets below 11 volts, you'll notice it ... dim lights, stereo clipping, fridges not as cold.  That's when you need to crank up the generator and run the battery charger.  You should be able to go 6-8 hours at a time before running the generator.  

    But then my generator won't start once the house bateries get low. I assumed this is because to start the genny runs off the house batteries, not the ignition batteries. Can you verify this? So I changed my routine to start my generator at the beginning of my day on the water, wasting more gas and money, but then the generator quits and I get the UV or Under Voltage error code as mentioned above. I asked the marina mechanic to check it and the genny runs just fine because he doesn't run it for 2-3 hours. Absolutely maddening! I am really at a loss for the meaning of genny Under Voltage. Very frustrating. Anyone else?
  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    Would it help to flip all the switches under Starboard and Shore Power to the off position while underway using battery power? Or does this make no difference?
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    The stbd/port and shore power switches have no effect unless you are connected to shore power.  

    The genny should run from a starter battery.  Draining the house bank absolutely should not disable the genny.  If it does, I'm guessing somebody made a mistake reconnecting cables after winter layup.  Figure it out, and make labels for everything.  
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    LaRea said:
    ...  Figure it out, and make labels for everything.  
    That sounded grumpy, so I'll explain.  Follow each cable from each battery, and figure out where it goes.  If you want, draw a diagram and post a picture so we can make recommendations.  Then label each of the cables to prevent future mis-wiring.  
  • JodijoeJodijoe Member Posts: 56
    LaRea said:
    The genny should run from a starter battery.  Draining the house bank absolutely should not disable the genny.  If it does, I'm guessing somebody made a mistake reconnecting cables after winter layup.  Figure it out, and make labels for everything.  
    The genny did not turn over on a few occasions when the house batteries were at brown out level, so I assumed that maybe the genny was wired to them. I'll double check the wiring. Thanks for clarification that they should be connected to the engine batteries. Maybe the whole problem is my genny. I'm tempted to just buy a new one but that seems silly since it only has 58 hours on it, hence my frustration. Thank You for your help!
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    As one of the other posts said, clean your battery connections before you draw any conclusions.

    And before you even think about replacing the genny, prove me wrong.  Run that thing a lot for a month or two, and see if she starts behaving better.  If this forum has proven anything beyond question, it's that marine generators need regular exercise.  
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