Newbie Needs Help understanding the electrical system in my 400 EC, Batteries dying/ignition switch

Liberty44140

You can get that genny rebuilt for less than a new one. Pull it out and take it to a Koehler dealer, will be far cheaper. You can find their dealers on their site. 

natsb

Jodijoe said:

LaRea said:

The genny should run from a starter battery.  Draining the house bank absolutely should not disable the genny.  If it does, I'm guessing somebody made a mistake reconnecting cables after winter layup.  Figure it out, and make labels for everything.  

The genny did not turn over on a few occasions when the house batteries were at brown out level, so I assumed that maybe the genny was wired to them. I'll double check the wiring. Thanks for clarification that they should be connected to the engine batteries. Maybe the whole problem is my genny. I'm tempted to just buy a new one but that seems silly since it only has 58 hours on it, hence my frustration. Thank You for your help!

I feel your pain.  When I hit the $1,000 mark on getting the generator to work, I decided I had enough.  It must have known.  It has been working great ever since the last repair.  I ended up replacing the circuit board due to endless UV errors.  And like several people have eluded to, a major problem with the generator turned out to be that the ground wire was corroded.  Replaced the ground wire, and all the intermittent problems went away.


I also had issues with the batteries browning out.  That turned out to be the alternators were putting out enough volts, but not enough amps.  There is a box where everything comes together that is a great place to measure for amps.  In the attached diagram it is the box where the alternators and battery charger come together.  On my boat, it is labeled "Battery Isolator" and is next to the charger.

natsb

LaRea said:

As one of the other posts said, clean your battery connections before you draw any conclusions.

And before you even think about replacing the genny, prove me wrong.  Run that thing a lot for a month or two, and see if she starts behaving better.  If this forum has proven anything beyond question, it's that marine generators need regular exercise.  

Add me as a "me too".  My boat was new to me last season.  It had sat, unused, for over a year.  The generator was nothing but trouble.  When it finally stabilized, we ran it every weekend.  Now, it runs wonderfully.  Somehow, the genny just wants to be used, and gets mad when it is ignored.

Jodijoe

LaRea said:

As one of the other posts said, clean your battery connections before you draw any conclusions.

And before you even think about replacing the genny, prove me wrong.  Run that thing a lot for a month or two, and see if she starts behaving better.  If this forum has proven anything beyond question, it's that marine generators need regular exercise.  

Thanks! Will do!

Jodijoe

natsb said:

Jodijoe said:

LaRea said:

The genny should run from a starter battery.  Draining the house bank absolutely should not disable the genny.  If it does, I'm guessing somebody made a mistake reconnecting cables after winter layup.  Figure it out, and make labels for everything.  

The genny did not turn over on a few occasions when the house batteries were at brown out level, so I assumed that maybe the genny was wired to them. I'll double check the wiring. Thanks for clarification that they should be connected to the engine batteries. Maybe the whole problem is my genny. I'm tempted to just buy a new one but that seems silly since it only has 58 hours on it, hence my frustration. Thank You for your help!

I feel your pain.  When I hit the $1,000 mark on getting the generator to work, I decided I had enough.  It must have known.  It has been working great ever since the last repair.  I ended up replacing the circuit board due to endless UV errors.  And like several people have eluded to, a major problem with the generator turned out to be that the ground wire was corroded.  Replaced the ground wire, and all the intermittent problems went away.


I also had issues with the batteries browning out.  That turned out to be the alternators were putting out enough volts, but not enough amps.  There is a box where everything comes together that is a great place to measure for amps.  In the attached diagram it is the box where the alternators and battery charger come together.  On my boat, it is labeled "Battery Isolator" and is next to the charger.

Wow, that's some great info! Thank you so much! Were your batteries browning out despite the generator running? 

Stodge

Interesting.  My genny uses the port side starting battery to start, not the house.  Surprised they would not be consistent with which battery starts the genny.

aero3113

My generator uses the starboard side starting battery.

natsb

Jodijoe said:

natsb said:

Jodijoe said:

LaRea said:

The genny should run from a starter battery.  Draining the house bank absolutely should not disable the genny.  If it does, I'm guessing somebody made a mistake reconnecting cables after winter layup.  Figure it out, and make labels for everything.  

The genny did not turn over on a few occasions when the house batteries were at brown out level, so I assumed that maybe the genny was wired to them. I'll double check the wiring. Thanks for clarification that they should be connected to the engine batteries. Maybe the whole problem is my genny. I'm tempted to just buy a new one but that seems silly since it only has 58 hours on it, hence my frustration. Thank You for your help!

I feel your pain.  When I hit the $1,000 mark on getting the generator to work, I decided I had enough.  It must have known.  It has been working great ever since the last repair.  I ended up replacing the circuit board due to endless UV errors.  And like several people have eluded to, a major problem with the generator turned out to be that the ground wire was corroded.  Replaced the ground wire, and all the intermittent problems went away.


I also had issues with the batteries browning out.  That turned out to be the alternators were putting out enough volts, but not enough amps.  There is a box where everything comes together that is a great place to measure for amps.  In the attached diagram it is the box where the alternators and battery charger come together.  On my boat, it is labeled "Battery Isolator" and is next to the charger.

Wow, that's some great info! Thank you so much! Were your batteries browning out despite the generator running? 

At first, yes.  The original charger had run out of juice.  I was draining the batteries faster than the charger could charge them.  A new charger fixed that problem.  Now, while on generator, the batteries charge to full no matter what I turn on.

cme4brain

Jodijoe said:

We've had our 2010 400 EC with hard top for 2 years now and we love it. However, several aspects of the electrical system do not make sense to me. My port key is incapable of being turned to "ACC." My 2 house batteries go into brownout mode after a few hours when I'm running lights, radio, pressurized water and toilet. We also have a day boat that has pressurized water and we haven't come close to killing one battery with a full day of use. 

1. My port key is incapable of being turned to "ACC."  Like a car key, it seems that turning the key to the left to ACC to run the radio won't kill your car battery, but my key simply can't be turned to the left even though the face plate has a position for ACC. My stereo will NOT even work unless I turn the port key to the "ON" position for the whole day. Like a car, the battery would die quickly if you did the same in your car. See photo. I'll try to upload a video.

I note all the great advice on this thread.  I note that my new-to-me 2007 Rinker 350 had its battery connections all mucked up by the prior owner, and even my marina wired the batteries wrong- note below the CORRECT wiring to the port, house, and genset batteries all labeled with white masking tape.  The starboard start battery is not in this picture.  I have four batteries in my system, likely yours as well.  I have separate port and starboard engine starting batteries, a house battery, and an isolated generator starting battery.

Dream_Inn

Yours is different than the 400 because we have 2 house batteries and the generator runs off of one of the starting batteries (although I've seen it off of house, but I'd have it on starting when you wear down house to use the starting to start genny to charge).

Handymans342

LaRea said:

As one of the other posts said, clean your battery connections before you draw any conclusions.

And before you even think about replacing the genny, prove me wrong.  Run that thing a lot for a month or two, and see if she starts behaving better.  If this forum has proven anything beyond question, it's that marine generators need regular exercise.  

With a load on it