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Bielge pumps

rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Electrical Discussions
So, my 270 has two. Recently, the breakers for both are popping. So they must be getting power because they pop right? So I'd guess there must be a ground problem? Switch on the helm runs both but there are two breakers. Where are the grounds for the circuit? What do I need to check?
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,560 mod
    Make sure they aren't getting stuck in the on position.  The switch is known to get stuck and will continuously run the pump and blow the breaker.  At that point, it's best to just buy a new pump.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well I was going to do that ...the one in the transom will run, the one in the aft will not...so I'm assuming the pumps are ok and I'm grounding out somewhere else? I'd sure hate to spend the money and still have the same problem  not that it is a lot and not a bad thing to replace but if I still have the same problem....
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looking at new pumps...seems like the combo built in float switch would be the way to go but not sure how the wiring would work?
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    reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    same wiring as you have now 
    + full time power
    + switch power
    - ground
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I sorta get it but if you have seen any of my posts electrical stuff is the weak link for me....If I were replacing my separate float and pump would not have a problem doing it and doing the connections correctly etc...so I have a wires for the float switch than control power to the pump right? So I do I weed out what wires go where then? I should be able to test for the wire that operates for the switch but beyond that, I'm scratching my head a bit...maybe I should keep it simple and just replace what I have...
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.thehulltruth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=933871&d=1504631729&imgrefurl=https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/589510-help-auto-bilge-pump-wiring.html&docid=TVvSSqXWn4mkTM&tbnid=P_j7Xb5VWeIiEM:&vet=1&w=776&h=809&source=sh/x/im

    So this image shows pretty close what our set up would be except for the battery switch right? It also shows a fuse or breaker for the float switch that I don't think I have. So if I go to an all in one pump, what do I do with the wires that now go to the float switch?

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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are 2 diffent all in one pumps. One automatic(pump turns on every few min ) and one that has turns on via float or manual dash switch.  


    Which one are you looking at getting? 
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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The one I have midship is an automatic that turns on every few minutes, it’s also wired to turn on with a switch.
    2008 330EC
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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    2008 330EC
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    I saw the one that you sent me the diagram in @PickleRick being one that turns on every few minutes and turns back off if there is no water- don't think I want to go that route as I store on a trailer and not a slip. So I would be looking at one with a built in float. All that aside, I'm thinking I may have left the bielge on and fried one. The stand alone pumps are cheaper so maybe I will just replace those and see if that solves the problem and that way I don't have to rewire anything. I will get them ordered and in next weekend and see if that solves it.
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The wire that now connects to your float connects to the "always hot" wire going to the new pump.  The switch (+) connects to you're current switch and ground (as usual) goes to ground.
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just ordered the replacement pumps I have...if that don't fix it I'll get the floats...if that don't fix it I'll get a new boat...but thanks for the input...
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol...is it that bad???
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    No, jk....pretty minor boat problem...I bet I left them running and burned one or both of them up...
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    You'll get it.  They have float switches at both my local Wal-Mart and academy sports.  Its east to check them with a multimeter set on continuity.  The work or they don't. Sometimes the weight inside sticks.  

    Unless wired wrong they dont ground so they shouldn't trip a breaker unless they are running too long(sticking).  If i forget my bilge fan it trips in about 4 to 5 min. I trip the breaker too many times a summer to count.  


    Post edited by PickleRick on
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep, thanks bud
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So ordered the pumps late afternoon...were here this am...scary..
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yet the DMV and post office still take forever
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So brought the boat home...went to the mid ship bilge first and it was froze up ..so it has a real nice plug rather than butt connectors...but the wire is 12 gauge on one side and what 10 or so on the other...not familiar with the style plug as I don't see any way for the wires to come out..how do I replace this plug?
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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There’s a tool that’s used to push the pins out.
    2008 330EC
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its a molex plug. Junk
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wish I knew that before I cut them off...I was just going to use butt connectors but like the idea of being able to unplug rather than cut...guess the old shrink wrap butt connection would be better anyway...in my Sportster I would solder any wires.. 
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can use spade terminals if you'd like to make it removable.  Just make sure you coat the connection in bulb grease.  Also, give yourself enough slack so that you can fold the wires and zip tie them together in a loop so the terminals cant accidentally pull apart.
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guess if I have enough slack, butt with the shrink will make sure connection will stay clean...
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    They make spade terminals with heat shrink crimping ends.  You can also buy plugs that look like what you have as well as the inside fittings.  

    That plug is identical to the engine to mower plug on a Briggs or kohler or Kawasaki engine.

    Even with heat shrink moisture can/will eventually finds a way in.   A little bulb grease is insurance for when that happens.  We boat in some of the most humid locations of the world.  
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What would you do @PickleRick?
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's no wrong way to do it, just make sure metal to metal connections are greased,  make sure the wires are zip tied to themselves so they cant rip apart and spark( all it takes is dropping a tool in the bilge),  make sure they are crimped firmly and heated to constrict fully.

    I don't super like the white plugs, they give connection issues even on lawn mowers. Lawn mowers dont run in a wet/oily humid bilge.

    Give enough slack where if they need serviced in the future you can pull the wiring out from under the motor to access it.  
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The other issue I have is going from a pretty heavy 10 or 12 gauge wire to like a 14...I've only seen connectors for the same or at least close size wire...are there different ones you can get?
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes you can get step down butt connectors.

    Let me finish my coffee/cereal and I'll send you a pic of what i do in that situation.
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    PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
     skin twice the normal legnth, twist, ben back 180 degrees.  Now you can use the 12 gauge connector on 14 gauge wire.  
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