changing risers..

J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 2020 in Engine Discussions
On a closed loop cooling system on a mercruiser 383 do you also change the lower gasket on the spacer? Or just leave it all alone scrape off the top gasket put a new one on and replace?


Post edited by J3ff on
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Comments

  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2020
    Definitely time for a change...

    Port side riser/elbow


    Stbd side riser/elbow


    Port manifold


    Stbd manifold


  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lower side of the upper port elbow... Looks like some kind of leak.. No? Combined with light rust on the valve cover right under it .. Will have to sand and repaint that. 






  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is not normal, correct?  Salt water leaking? Possibly installed incorrectly? 
  • PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2020
    All my exhaust bellows(y pipe bellows) had a little bellows glue on them.

    It is possible they were leaking but as you are in salt air and those are cast all it takes is exposed metal(paint scratchy or flaky) and you get corrosion or rust nearly over night


    Post edited by PickleRick on
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can't imagine this but could they be too loose?
  • aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 9,073 ✭✭✭✭✭
    J3ff said:
    Can't imagine this but could they be too loose?
    Yes
    2008 330EC
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess I just need to start double checking things... my fault. 

    Any thoughts on the first post? Normally of course you'd change the gasket, but being closed cooling it makes me wonder if it's needed? 
  • aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 9,073 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would be worried the gaskets won’t seal properly since they were already compressed once.
    2008 330EC
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yeah, they are just really stuck on there.. but will take them off today/tomorrow @212rowboat see anything that strikes you? Do you see that salt on the elbows a lot or never? 
  • PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it were me I'd clean the elbows up good.  Id reinstall with bellows glue and call it a day.  After running it id retorque all the hose clamps. 

    As far as those gaskets, i installed all new ones with new gaskets. They are one time use.  

    Clean all mating surfaces on risers/manifolds/spacers with a large flat file to be sure they are true. If you dont have a large flat file a concrete block (cinder block) works in a pinch. Lay block on flat surface and rub mating surface against smooth side of bare concrete block.  Dont use one that is all pitted up and weathered.   I installed my riser gaskets with a very thin coat of permatex right stuff on the gaskets.  

    Torque down in sequence with torque wrench.  Re check torque after good shake down run. 

    Bellows glue helps everything slide into the y pipe bellows when installing.  It also helps seal up any imperfections on the surfaces.

    If your exhaust bellow joints are hardened or were swelling outward they need to be replaced.  Fresh flexible new ones are a pleasure to work with while old hard ones will teach you new swear words.
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2020
    Took off the lower gaskets, geezuz another 100 bucks for "full flow" gaskets.. so that's 700ish in risers, 200 in gaskets, gotta love it. 

    Ordered a small electric hand sander to get em perfectly smooth.. like some guy on youtube..  :D

    Thank you for the tips ! Are you saying I should put some bellows glue on the parts that show salt water leaking?

  • PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did your riser kit not come with gaskets?

    Yes, bellows glue around where the rubber joints go over the riser/y pipe.  It will help seal.


  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They came with gaskets but I'm finding out that closed cooled with risers needs two non standard gaskets... One is a high flow version and the other is a no flow..🤣

    To answer my earliest question on if the clamps around the elbow might leak because they are too loose.... Well I put a socket on an extension and was able to loosen it up by hand, no other tools needed... It turned easily without any Force and off they came... Not sure how that slipped by both mechanics and me but ultimately the Captain is responsible, so it's my fault... Now it's time to turn every single thing that should be tight and make sure it's tight I guess.


  • aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 9,073 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @PickleRick , the gaskets would come with new spacers.
    2008 330EC
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2020
    Probably the source of oil residue on the floor too right? This was a couple of days after getting it back... Yes I'm starting to see that the boat was telling me things and I'm the typical guy who ignores it...
  • YYZRCYYZRC Member Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was initially horrified at how clogged the round ports were, but now I see that the gaskets actually block those ports on closed cooling motors??

    Closed cooling:



    Sea water cooled:


    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yeah, but if you have a spacer like I do the bottom one has two wide open holes, so there's a third version of what you have above. 
  • YYZRCYYZRC Member Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was pulling the parts based on my serial number so I guess that's why I didn't get the third version.
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i don't use bellows glue on the exhaust boots... i use dawn dishwashing soap.. when it dries you can dang near take the clamps off... not that i would, but... it's that good a seal.  insofar as those clamps go, they loosen over time- it's just the nature of them.... it doesn't look nice, but i'll bend the remainder of the clamp over the driver just to keep that from happening.  

    there are SO freakin' many different configurations of risers/manifold gaskets it's not even a sport to find the right ones- it's lunacy.  the ones in the image above this post are for dry joints... there are wet joint ones too... then, there are all kinds of configurations from slotted passages to squared ones, to holes... and man, it get's confusing fast.  and it's real easy to get the wrong ones.  

    then, there are updated gaskets... some say ZERO rtv... some say 'lightly use rtv'... and... then i look at the OE marrying surfaces and ask myself what planet those engineers are from suggesting no rtv?  if the surface has to be worked to remove material from the casting process they have no room to tell us not to use rtv... so... i do... an even film.  
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    $$$$&$$$$$$$$$$
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The long term plan is to get out of this kind of boat for sure.. I just was taking the lazy route.. the engine alignment will be fixed as soon as the tool comes in... Was supposed to be here yesterday but word on the street is some new boss at the United States postal service is screwing things up and I can tell you that the tool is now lost somewhere between Illinois and Florida and tracking just says sorry it's going to be late.

    Honestly I don't even mind because work is really busy right now and I've got a boat that I can take out but instead I'm just sitting here staring at it :D
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i don't use bellows glue on the exhaust boots... i use dawn dishwashing soap.. when it dries you can dang near take the clamps off... not that i would, but... it's that good a seal.  insofar as those clamps go, they loosen over time- it's just the nature of them.... it doesn't look nice, but i'll bend the remainder of the clamp over the driver just to keep that from happening.  

    there are SO freakin' many different configurations of risers/manifold gaskets it's not even a sport to find the right ones- it's lunacy.  the ones in the image above this post are for dry joints... there are wet joint ones too... then, there are all kinds of configurations from slotted passages to squared ones, to holes... and man, it get's confusing fast.  and it's real easy to get the wrong ones.  

    then, there are updated gaskets... some say ZERO rtv... some say 'lightly use rtv'... and... then i look at the OE marrying surfaces and ask myself what planet those engineers are from suggesting no rtv?  if the surface has to be worked to remove material from the casting process they have no room to tell us not to use rtv... so... i do... an even film.  
    Appreciate your comments will go the soap route and remember to check them every month.. hoping to get it back in the water for the holiday weekend
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guess they were ready.. This is the port side.. almost 4 years from install. 



    If I were at the start of this road 4 years ago I'd be looking for in water flush kits.


    Put soap on the blue part, correct? Even if they won't be run for a week or two? Bellows glue won't be here for a few days...




  • PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2020
    Yes bellows glue on every surface the rubber seals off to the metal. You see how the surface is dempled?

    Fresh new soft bellows wouldn't have an issue but older harder ones can use the help.

    Dawn soap will make it slide on easily but does nil for sealing. Below glue helps it slide on easily plus help seal.


    Many ways to skin a cat.  I just dont wanna do it twice.
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    K, I'll pick some up and get it done. I've got the elbows in soapy water trying to dissolve the salt off of them. 
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One thing those pictures make me think of is the heat exchanger.. I almost dont want to look and just stick my head in the sand... of course that's not the right thing to do. 
  • IanIan Member Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭✭

    Many ways to skin a cat.  I just dont wanna do it twice.
    Neither does the cat..... B)

    Regards,

    Ian

    The Third “B”

    Secretary, Ravena Coeymans Yacht Club

    https://www.rcyachtclub.com/

  • PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The heat exchanger is something im new to. Any recommendations to how often to clean them out? 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes bellows glue on every surface the rubber seals off to the metal. You see how the surface is dempled?

    Fresh new soft bellows wouldn't have an issue but older harder ones can use the help.

    Dawn soap will make it slide on easily but does nil for sealing. Below glue helps it slide on easily plus help seal.


    Many ways to skin a cat.  I just dont wanna do it twice.
    again i say, dishwashing soap will seal it.  it will seal it with an added bonus- when you want to remove them all you have to do is slide a small pick between the surfaces, and spray some water in there making the soap slick again... when that stuff dries it may as well be bellow seal.... it's great for that purpose, but NOT on transom bellows... use the freakin' bellow glue back there with a certainty.  

    there is another bonus in using dishwashing soap for hoses inside the engine room- it bubbles when it leaks. it makes a leak obvious.  really obvious.  and, you won't have to trim the hoses and hope you have enough if one lets loose for whatever reason... all you have to do is put it PAST the first clamp where water won't encounter it unless the clamp fails.  

    @PickleRick this is like the second or third time you've straight up countered what i've offered without asking me 'why' first.... do you not think i know what i'm doing if i think enough to comment on it? 
  • PickleRickPickleRick Member Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've not used dish soap on bellows before but on  pesky leaky coolant hoses.  Worked great most of the time.

    On the other hand some sealant around the sealing lip before sliding on the hose, then torque the clamp (or install a god awful spring hose clamp) and issues never came back.

    Fresh y pipe bellows will work up and down somewhat easily but the harder ones not so much. If it leaks and he cannot get it to stop by re torquing the clamps he is stuck ripping that riser back off to buy more expensive gaskets.

    Dawn does leave a sticky goo behind.  When sealing something that hard to access i prefer the gorilla snot.  Reused hose clamps shouldn't stretch like new ones but if they do the bellows glue is likely to still be holding strong.

    I by no means am saying dish soap won't work, it will but i think that there is already a pretty good product on the market that does a good job sealing bellows.  
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