Alignment bar wont touch splines...

J3ff

EDIT - ignore this first post, finally got the bar to go in, but it required a LOT more force than I thought it would.. 

Another day, another surprise...

This is in relation to another post where I'm trying to track down a noise that's coming from the transom. Best guess was out of alignment or bad bearing.

The bearing turns nice and smooth and does not move back and forth, no grinding at all. 

This is the tool that I am using. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NCQ1TWN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Main concern:
Grease the far end of the bar, put it in, it goes smoothly in till it hits something, but no matter what you do, the grease on the end remains untouched.

Secondary concern:
There is space between the FRONT (bow side) of the gimbal bearing and whatever it is supposed to mate up to on the transom assembly. IS THIS SPACE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE? It's about 1/2 inch.

Possiblities:
Incorrect alignment bar? 
Bearing is too far back and was not pushed all the way in?
Motor is too far forward? (I don't see how this is possible, just throwing it out there).

I dont see #9 in there... which I hear is normal for sealed bearings..

https://www.marineengine.com/parts/mercruiser-sterndrive-parts/bravo-three/0f730000-thru-0m100000/gimbal-housing

J3ff

PickleRick

Sometimes the gimball center bearing gets out of aligment when pulling the drive. It is a gimball and not a standard flat faced ball bearing that stays stationary with mounting surface.

Push the alignment bar in just up until the point you don't touch the coupler.

Then move the gimbal up/down/left/right until you can slide into the spline of the coupler. Sometimes a little wack or jerk will give you the feel for what it takes to move her.

When aligned you should be able to easily slide it in and out of the coupler with 2-3 fingers.  

You should see even spline grease all around the tip of the bar.

J3ff

Okay, got it to go in, had to tap it with a hammer with medium force... so I guess this confirms, alignment is off! 

PickleRick

You shouldn't need to tap it in once aligned.  

So, yes shes off.  When you start adjusting make sure you count turns on the nuts of each side.  This makes adjustments more calculated.  It's also easieir to get back to start position if your adjustments make it worse.

J3ff

It only showed that it was touching TOP splines... would mean front needs to be lowered, correct? 

PickleRick

Yes.  Lower it evenly on both sides in small increments until you get if fitted.  If you find going up or down doesn't get it perfect you're then going to adjust sides up/down as needed to get it perfect.  

I've never heard of the loweing past fitment then raising back up to fit technique until your pontoon thread, makes sense. Less likely to come out of alignment when you snug the top nuts.  Keep that in mind when getting it centered.  

J3ff

Thanks, I sure hope it has to come down, because there's no other way it can go!!

Have to think about that lowering first thing... can you tell if this is sealed vs non-sealed? 

PickleRick

Bearing must be removed to see if it's sealed.  It wont have a great port on the outer race.

The oem bearing comes with a grease plug to plug the grease fitting if the outdrive is older and being updated

212rowboat

you can get ball park by eyeballing it alone.  i can see in the picture just how bad it is, and shocker- front low.... which brings us right back to the rear mounts and if they're right... a washer between those surface- say with a 1/16" stack height- will bring that back up to where the coupler shaft is almost flat (by eye and using the picture) with the coupler, and then the front can come down- way down as that angle is exponential to the front mounts- likely as much as an inch and a half.... more likely around an inch. 

J3ff

212rowboat said:

you can get ball park by eyeballing it alone.  i can see in the picture just how bad it is, and shocker- front low.... which brings us right back to the rear mounts and if they're right... a washer between those surface- say with a 1/16" stack height- will bring that back up to where the coupler shaft is almost flat (by eye and using the picture) with the coupler, and then the front can come down- way down as that angle is exponential to the front mounts- likely as much as an inch and a half.... more likely around an inch. 

ughhh.... my head hurts even thinking about touching things back there.. so you're saying the front has to come up even more? There's only three turns left to go higher... I was hoping it would be opposite. Lowering the front would bring the rear most part of the coupler higher... ? sigh. 

When I forced it in, with NO grease on it, it came back out with grease only showing contact on the top... wouldn't that mean you lower the front and the top splines will be LESS in contact? Going to go look over some diagrams

This all doesn't matter because I lost the new gimbal bearing!! (ha ha) Another one will be here monday and I'm sure I'll find the 1st one within 5 mins of it showing up! 

https://youtu.be/w118LGsYgY4?t=97

PickleRick

What year is your boat?

PickleRick

Here is the washer he talks about.  My inline 6 is easier to access than your v8 but maybe this will help you to see what you're looking for.  It does appear to be a about a 1/16th thick.


And yes, if splines are heavy on top and not present on the bottom it needs to be lowered.  

Heavy on bottom and low on tops they need to go up.

If you see washers on the back mounts start lowering

From my experience with a 23 yr old alpha, I found I was missing the washer on one rear mount,   the front mounts required being near bottomed out to align.  Took removing the motor to find the missing washer sitting down inside the shield.


She aligned without it, but barely.  Once put back it fit much better.  With these v8s you don't see the mounts without crawling or a good bore scope.

reneechris14

Start with a 1 inch bar ie. Broom handle this will fit in the spline but not touch the barring if its aligned. This will give a good eye to see up or down. The gease seal is in there I can see it. Take a pic straight on all the pics have some angle. Was it tuff to get the drive off? Just a buddy couple months ago miss the washers toll would go in about an inch in the coupler and thats it.

reneechris14

I put the grease seal in with a piece of 3 inch pvc, the outside diameter is smaller then the bearing. By the looks the bearing is in all the way.

reneechris14

not my boat but notice the depth of the bearing. Also SIE bellows did not make seal to the drive..ps buy oem.

212rowboat

J3ff said:

When I forced it in, with NO grease on it, it came back out with grease only showing contact on the top... wouldn't that mean you lower the front and the top splines will be LESS in contact? Going to go look over some diagrams

This all doesn't matter because I lost the new gimbal bearing!! (ha ha) Another one will be here monday and I'm sure I'll find the 1st one within 5 mins of it showing up! 

i guess everyone has a technique that veers off the documentation on how it's done... the 'two finger' hold on the alignment rod is BS... now, i am NOT talking using force, but sliding it in with two finger holding the rod?.... that's crap... 

the grease thing is BS too... UNTIL you get near 'right'.  it will lie like a winter bear when it's way out.  when it's close? yeah, depth of grease on the rod as made by the splines is invaluable.  at first? good luck with that... it confuses far more than it helps. 

yada yada yada.. that isn't helping you... this may:

use a light mallet. push the rod in as far as you can but no more- just enough that it 'holds itself' when you let go.... 

now carefully- very carefully.... sit parallel to the hull facing and watching the end of the alignment rod... use a tape measure if you must... but.. TAP it lightly.  nothing? do it again... nothing? do it again... and again... at some point, the END of that alignment rod will either RAISE or DIP as it uses the bevel on the end to go in... once you see whether it dips or raises? adjust the engine to accommodate better alignment... 

yell to your assistant to either raise or lower the mounts. ONE FULL TURN. no more. no less. both sides.  

now, remove the rod and start over.  

at some point you'll likely discover it's not only rises or dips, but it will also move closer to you or further away (if you were looking AT the transom you'd see the end of the rod move left or right and a little matters.. )

if/when it pulls left or right, you have to turn one side up a little more than the other... but here is the thing:  when you see that? you're getting near the sweet spot..

you'll discover you get the rod in further and further every cycle before it dips or raises... you DON'T care how hard it is to shove in there or pull out yet- you SIMPLY WANT TO WATCH IF THE END OF THE ROD DIPS OR RAISES the further in so you know which way to adjust... 

then, miraculously, you bottom out.   you'd think you pull the rod out, but... no... you try- and as soon as it start to move you stop and have your assistant continue what they were doing... if they were raising the mounts? have them continue upward... if they were lowering? same- keep going down... FULL TURNS.. precise... use a marker on the nut and the post if you have to.. have them turn it, and you pull on the rod- if it slips out a little, reseat it and have them turn again... 

you'll reach a point where that rod comes out pretty easy... not two friggin' finger easy, but pretty dang easy... guess what? NOW you're 'close'.  

start turning in 1/8 turns.... 


yada yada blah- you get it from here.... 

when it's right? when it's 'perfect'? the rod has equally depth grease marks on the shaft.... and it is never easier to move ALL the way in and out... you'll know that because you went past 'perfect', and you go back down IN FULL PRECISE TURNS after you KNOW it's 'harder' to seat and retrieve.. then you sneak back up on it in tiny turns.... 

it took me longer to type that than the alignment takes right up to the paragraph right above this one.... once you're 'past' perfect and drop FULL TURNS to get back under it, the 'creep' takes a while.  it's the most time consuming part of alignment other than pulling and re-hanging the outdrive. 

J3ff

Wow, thank you 212, I'm going to print this out and study it a bit in the morning and go from there! You are awesome!!! 

reneechris14

Must agree with 2 fingers to pull the bar out is bs.
Good instructions @212rowboat
When the bar is in twisting will let you know the pressure also.

Handymans342

Boat porn. I love it

Ian

And this is why I let the experts do this stuff......

J3ff

icoultha said:

And this is why I let the experts do this stuff......

Funny that you say that, the experts here DIDN'T DO IT, even though I asked them to check it (and fix if needed) twice! Went to a third one and he told me that it must be a plate on the hub... would have LOVED if the dude who got paid 3700 bucks to remove engine, seal the transom and install engine would have done this. 

J3ff

Alswagg said:

That bearing is not a new typed sealed bearing.  Plus, it looks like it is for a very early Bravo.  1997 era. The center race on the current bearings for the larger u joint shafts is “thinner”  not as deep or thick.    The newer bearings are almost .100 thinner. This is needed since the new drives have larger unjoints than early production drives.  Larger caps 

Thanks Al, the newer, sealed version will be going in. I'd like to add that I ALSO asked the mechanic to buy the correct sealed one and put it in. Obviously I was ignored .

Handymans342

@J3ff Welcome to Florida

J3ff

Handymans342 said:

@J3ff Welcome to Florida

yup

Handymans342

There are some good ones around Ft Myers. 

J3ff

The best part is when I called to tell him he f'd up, he wouldn't take the call or return the call... Even when I was willing to pay for him to CHECK alignment and fix his own mistake!

Aqua_Aura

I guess Florida is the same for boats as it is for airplanes. So many junk operators in Florida. 

davidbrooks

Its a shame that it isnt worth it to take him to small claims court. That goes beyond incompetant to just plain fraud

J3ff

Yup, it is what it is at this point. Probably will put it all back together on Friday and hope to be back in the water for the long weekend. We'll see... the funny part about down here is everyone seems to have multiple boats, so it's not hard to find someone looking for a guest! 

Michael T

As usual great comments all. Adding my 2 cents would be: 1. never force an alignment tool harder than you would want someone pushing on your nut$ 2. I must be full of BS because the Mercruiser OEM alignment tool slid in and out of both of my 2013 350 Mags and both of my 2014 502 mags EASILY with two fingers, not four, not a hand, not a mallet. :-)