Kohler 5E mess

Pat310

When I purchase my 2003 310 last August the Generator was not running at survey and I was foolish enough to take a $500 credit because it would take a few weeks to get a Kohler tech to look at it according to broker (How bad can it be he said,  it only has 15hrs on it). If only I was a member here before purchase I would have known how bad. My impatience got the better of me as season was winding down. Fast forward to this year and I’ve replace the impeller, the coupler, the fuel pump and the carburetor. It will now start and run and pump water but only for as long as I hold the starter button. Seems like a low oil pressure sensor to me. Any way of bypassing the sensors to test?

aero3113

How’s your oil level? Check it with the dipstick unscrewed, don’t screw it down to check.

Aqua_Aura

Is there any error messages on the display? 

Pat310

Oil level is good. Older model with no display. Motor purrs but shuts down immediately as soon as I let go of the switch. 

Pat310

Aqua_Aura

Maybe a bad switch? Run/middle position may not be making a connection. Not sure how skilled you are but maybe you can open that up and check connections with a meter or atleast a test light?

Pat310

Looks like a bit of corrosion in box. Hoping the main board isn’t fried. 

Pat310

From the service manual:

6.2 Engine Safety Shutdown

Switches

6.2.1 Low Oil Pressure (LOP) Shutdown

When low oil pressure occurs, the LOP shutdown switch

contacts close energizing the K4 relay (LED4 lights).

The generator shuts down, as described in

Section 6.1.3.

Note: During cranking, the low oil pressure shutdown

switch deactivates until the K5 relay energizes.

This delay allows the engine to reach normal

operating oil pressure.

6.2.2 Loss of Coolant Switch (LCS)

Shutdown

When the coolant level is low, the LCS contacts close,

energizing the K4 relay (LED4 lights). The generator

shuts down, as described in Section 6.1.3.

6.2.3 High Engine Temperature Switch

(HET) Shutdown

When the engine temperature exceeds 110C (230F),

the HET contacts close, energizing the K4 relay (LED4

lights). The generator shuts down, as described in

Section 6.1.3.

6.2.4 Controller Circuit Board

The controller circuit board has light emitting diodes

(LEDs) that indicate the presence of relay coil power.

When any of the relays K1--K5 receive power, the

corresponding LED lights.

1 1

GM

Pat310

So I’m trying to figure out that if I disconnect the wire to the low oil pressure switch will be bypassed or do I need to hook the sensor lead to ground to bypass?

Aqua_Aura

Ok I see why you think it could be an oil pressure switch.  If you can get the info check the resistance on the pressure switch or if it's inexpensive just put one on. That box looks really corroded, does the circuit board look ok?

Are you getting any of the K LED fail light illuminated? 

Pat310

Can’t get my head in there to see to well. Even hard to get enough room to get decent pics. I’ll bring a mirror with me next time I go to see if I can get eyes on the leds on the board

Aqua_Aura

Someone else will know better but if there is no pressure than the switch is maybe "open" and "closed" with pressure so it might be possible to connect the two wires of the pressure switch to bypass for testing. 

The pressure switch looks to be less than $30 though. 

LaRea

This is a long shot ... see the three circular fuse holders next to the starter button?  On mine, those things have failed more than once.  They would not get tight enough to hold contact.

Try this test for each of the three fuses:  Start the engine, but before you release the starter button, push in firmly on the fuse holder cap, then release the starter button.  

It probably won't work, but at least you can rule out this failure.  Here are some of my fuse holders -- normal, one side failed, both sides failed. 



Here's the thread.
https://rinkerboats.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/7899/generator-acting-flakey-diy-instructions-to-replace-the-fuse-holders

aero3113

It won’t hurt anything if you disconnect the oil pressure switch. I know mine still runs when I disconnected the coolant pressure switch for troubleshooting. Worth a try... But if it doesn’t start, it still doesn’t rule out the switch since we’re not sure if it can run with it disconnected.

Aqua_Aura

If it's disconnected isn't that the same as no oil pressure? 

aero3113

Pat310 said:

So I’m trying to figure out that if I disconnect the wire to the low oil pressure switch will be bypassed or do I need to hook the sensor lead to ground to bypass?

Try both ways.

Liberty44140

If it runs and then quits when you release the starter button then the problem is on the electrical side. Hopefully something cheap like the fuses LaRae mentioned or the brushes. Could also be the voltage regulator or the control board which are not cheap but not bad. Have you looked into getting a tech who knows generators on the boat? 

Liberty44140

Also, looks like your breaker switch is off, but it should start fine with that off, just won’t give power to the panel 

Pat310

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try some of them next time I’m at the boat. I was trying to avoid a tech. I know they like to work on a workbench and not crammed into a bilge. Not looking forward to pulling it :-(

Liberty44140

Is your generator in the middle of the binge like the 320? Or off to the port side? If in the middle, very easy to remove it to get it to a bench this winter. If it’s on the port side, it can be removed without removing the engine but the alternator and heat exchanger need to come off of the port engine. 

aero3113

Hopefully you don’t need to pull it. This issue sounds familiar, someone will know what’s going on.

Dream_Inn

aero3113 said:

Hopefully you don’t need to pull it. This issue sounds familiar, someone will know what’s going on.

Yes, I remember seeing this same issue here as well.  I just can't remember what fixed it.

Pat310

@Liberty44140  unfortunately it is tucked under on the port side. @Dream_Inn  I’ve read through most of the generator section and mostly it was what everyone here has suggested. The front of the gen sits about 4” from the bulkhead. Impeller and coupler was done looking in a mirror. The brushes would be a nightmare without pulling it. The lack of hours on a 17 year old generator make me worry it might be in the armature. Ordered oil pressure sensor. Will update as I go. Thanks fellas

YYZRC

On my genny, I couldn’t shut it off from the cabin switch. The switch in the cabin was bad. Probably not the issue but easy to eliminate as a cause if the other ideas don’t work. 

Pat310

Thanks @YYZRC. I will check that as well

Liberty44140

I had the same symptoms on a 5e on my 2001 310, and it was the stator and rotor. Was Able to have the stator re wound for $400 but re building the rotor failed, had to replace for $1300. This is all before labor for the tech who did all the work. That said the same thing could happen from a bad board or a bad regulator but if the stator and rotor are bad, and you replace the board, they will blow the new board too. I replaced the board first and then blew it and had to buy a second. Definitely try all this simple stuff First of course. Fuses, brushes. My stator blew because I had no enclosure and water got in. It’s easy to move the generator around, just a few bolts holding it in place..... if that helps you get to the brushes.

Black_Diamond

The exhaust sensor is / was a known problem that had a service bulletin on many moons ago. 

Those low low hours sets up lots of potential issues though. I can relate with the poor access too. 😆

Pat310

@Liberty44140 I’ll check how much slack in the wiring to shift it for access. I have to remove exhaust hoses and muffler for sure. @Black_Diamond where is exhaust sensor located?  I haven’t seen that one in any of parts diagram

Pat310

@Black_Diamond never mind found it on the diagram. Hidden behind electric box. 

Liberty44140

The exhaust hoses on my 310 and 342 were pretty easy to get off so hopefully yours are too. I hope this is just a small, easy fix. 

Pat310

Thanks @Liberty44140. Had them off to do the impeller and the coupler earlier so should be no problem