Ongoing Battery Charger / Refrigerator Challenge on FV 270

aconthelake

On acquiring this boat in 2018 it had a ProMariner ProSport 12 onboard battery charger installed.  One bank to the starter battery and one bank to the house battery.  The ProSport distributes up to 12 amps between the 2 battery banks or to which ever battery needs power.  The boat was left at the dock under 120V, the battery switch set to 2 (house battery) and the refrigerator running off the house battery which was being charged by the charger on shore power.  All was well in the world. 
In late fall 2020, I arrive at the boat after a month or so away, to find both batteries dead, the charger with no LED's on and a puddle of water below the refrigerator which had defrosted.  The only replacement charger I could find was a NOCO Gen Mini 2 8 Amp which pushes upto 4 amps per bank to 2 banks.  I installed the charger, both batteries recharged and all was well again.
In May this year, I finally got to the boat after the winter away to find the house battery very low and a new puddle below the refrigerator (which cuts out when the voltage gets below 10V).  Once the engine started, I used the boat and the house battery was working properly again.

I came back in late summer, after leaving the boat on charge with house battery selected to run the refrigerator, to find the house battery virtually drained and the puddle again.  It had been very hot and my mechanic guys pointed out that if the refrigerator pulls 5 to 6 amps when the compressor is on, the charger, which is limited to 4 amps max, would not be able to keep up.  Made sense.  So I installed a NOCO Genius GEN PRO 10 x 2 Fully Automatic Smart Marine Charger, which pushes out 10 amps per bank, more than enough for the Refrigerator needing 6 amps when running flat out.

After 4 weeks away, I return to find .... yes, a flat house battery and a puddle.  The "Smart" NOCO charger had decided that house battery was faulty, as it could not hold a charge (refrigerator constantly pulling 6 amps?) and so it switched off the bank charge and allowed the refrigerator to drain the house battery.
I had the new (1 year old) house battery checked and it was good.

Any thoughts would really be appreciated.  I have set the battery selector to off, emptied the refrigerator and turned it off and I go back to the boat next week to see if the charger has got both batteries charged.  BTW, the starter battery has been fine throughout.

Many thanks.....

J3ff

so odd that you post this right now. I have been having the SAME issue with mine. 

For two weekends in a row - coming down to the boat for the weekend, my house batteries are dead and the charger has decided to NOT charge them. This is the exact charger on my boat right now. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08G3STB1N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Talk about a stupid design, it just decides the batteries can't be charged and turns off. wtf. The house batteries are group 31 deka batteries, less than a year old. 

I am replacing it with this one ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JSJS5I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) as it's sitting in storage doing nothing. Hopefully this one wont turn off for no reason. If it does, well... it's off to the junk yard with both of them. ( dont understand how a company could make a "smart" battery charger that decides to just stop charging on a whim.. sounds like they are faulty if you can't trust them to keep the batteries topped off. 

Grahamu

Looking at the specs these battery chargers max output is 10 amps per leg. I'm not sure but a fridge will draw more than 6 amps on 12VDC especially on start up. You might want to consider a ProNautica 1220P or 1230P charger which will put out it's full charge to the bank that needs it.

J3ff

Grahamu said:

Looking at the specs these battery chargers max output is 10 amps per leg. I'm not sure but a fridge will draw more than 6 amps on 12VDC especially on start up. You might want to consider a ProNautica 1220P or 1230P charger which will put out it's full charge to the bank that needs it.

if spending that amount of $ on a charger, i'd like it to have wifi monitoring built in. googling around doesn't seem to yield much, you'd think this would be standard by now..

Grahamu

I have a 1240P charger and I am considering a Bluetooth Battery Monitor to connect to my phone so I can see the draw on my house bank when at anchor. My fridges are both 120VAC and 12VDC so I don't need to rely on batteries when on shorepower.

YYZRC

I’m happy with the Victron BMV712. I didn’t bother mounting the display in an accessible location but some might find it handy to do so. 

I also agree on spending a bit extra for a good charger. 

Cableguy Greg

I second the ProMariner charger. I have it on my boat and it has worked out great for me. 

Dream_Inn

I also have the proMariner charger and it works great!

alex8q4

A battery monitor is a must IMO if you rely on battery power.  I also have the BMV 712 and replaced the clock on my dash with it.  

J3ff

i'm not sure if we are all understanding the problem. 

The problem is that you show up to the boat after a week or so and the house battery is dead because the onboard battery charger stopped charging (for an unknown reason)...

this has happened twice to me in the last month. Cannot figure out why the 'smart charger' decides to stop charging my house batteries, but it does... 

I need a stupid charger that just does it's job, if it had wifi (not bluetooth...need it to tell me what's up from 40 miles away) that would be amazing!

aconthelake

J3ff, you have it in a nutshell.
Thanks to all for the really rapid replies.  I'll check out your recommendations but I also would like a "stupid" charger that just charged.  I guess you don't want it to boil the battery but my old ProMariner seemed to do the job.  WiFi would be useful as I'm 600 km away from my boat.

aconthelake

Anyone have a view on NOCO chargers.  They say that the NOCO Genius GEN PRO 10 x 2 Fully Automatic Smart Marine Charger is for permanent onboard use but its not working for me. Which Pro Mariner chargers have you guys got?

J3ff

aconthelake said:

Anyone have a view on NOCO chargers.  They say that the NOCO Genius GEN PRO 10 x 2 Fully Automatic Smart Marine Charger is for permanent onboard use but its not working for me. Which Pro Mariner chargers have you guys got?

yes, this is my experience as well. it's almost as if the thing is too sensitive and shuts down charging when it should keep on sending power.. then you show up to a dead house battery bank. my house batteries, 2 group 31's were as dead as a doornail this sat... completely unacceptable!! 

alex8q4

You shouldn’t be required to monitor your batteries when you leave your boat plugged into shore power.  The battery monitor is a great tool to understand your power and charging needs.  If you are relying on it to see if your batteries are dying on you again, I’d be looking to educate myself on your entire system, how it is intended to function, and how it actually functions.

Battery charges don’t last for ever which is likely why the first chargers crapped out, if that’s what actually happened.  A replacement charger should be sized to match the number of battery banks and how much of a charge you need.  A “stupid” charger will simply ensure you keep buying new batteries.

As for the batteries… how many do you have, are they 6v or 12v, and how many amp hours of storage you have are all critical details you need to understand before you can start to solve your problem.   Lastly, are the batteries true deep cell batteries or marine starting / deep cell batteries… as they are not the same thing.  

Lastly,  how old are the batteries, are they full of water, and were they replaced after they were killed during the first go around?  Draining batteries to 0% is very bad for them.   In fact when considering battery charge, you should be considering your batter dead once they hit 12.3 volts or 50%.

Grahamu

@J3ff and @aconthelake, I have been boating for 65 years and have gone through many evolutions in boats. From no electronics, basic engines and using basic navigation skills to maybe getting a fix from up above once in 24 hours 600 miles off shore to the present day and I'm sure other advisors on this site will agree " if you don't have the correct equipment installed Murphy will always show up"
It is only recently that wi-fi and Bluetooth have been available and will be a useful tool to monitor your boat. But in my mind that is a backup and you need to ensure that your systems are capable of keeping your boat afloat regardless of external communications. You both have a problem with charging your house battery and charger shutting down which suggests that the charger is not meeting the demand on the battery. If you want peace of mind, have the amperage draw of the fridge and what ever else would come on in your absence checked and double it and invest in a charger to carry that load. As i said earlier I have a Pronautic 1240 and am impressed with it. On my last boat I had to fill the batteries at least 3 times a season, this year not once. Wi-Fi and Bluetooth will become very useful for monitoring but not a substitute for proper systems. Sorry for the rant but all meant in good faith.

LaRea

If the battery never reaches a state of full charge, the charger will eventually do a safety shutdown.  The purpose is to avoid starting a fire.  Search the threads here about CO detectors being triggered when batteries were being cooked off by a dumb charger blindly dumping current into a faulty battery.  

The question is, why does the charger think the house battery never reaches full charge?  You said the battery is a year old -- have you topped off the water?  Is the charger seeing a voltage that isn't accurate because of a loose connection or corroded cable terminal? 

Have you measured how much current your boat is actually using?  Maybe it's more than the 10 amps your charger can supply.   

And seriously ... I wouldn't leave a fridge running unattended for 6 weeks.  That's just begging for trouble!

aconthelake

Another thought: My house battery bank is 2 x 6V golf cart batteries in series. I just noticed in a ProMariner brochure that if you have 6V in series or 4D or 8D you have to call them.  Anyone know if the 2 x 6V may be the problem with these newer chargers?

J3ff

Grahamu said:

@J3ff and @aconthelake, I have been boating for 65 years and have gone through many evolutions in boats. From no electronics, basic engines and using basic navigation skills to maybe getting a fix from up above once in 24 hours 600 miles off shore to the present day and I'm sure other advisors on this site will agree " if you don't have the correct equipment installed Murphy will always show up"
It is only recently that wi-fi and Bluetooth have been available and will be a useful tool to monitor your boat. But in my mind that is a backup and you need to ensure that your systems are capable of keeping your boat afloat regardless of external communications. You both have a problem with charging your house battery and charger shutting down which suggests that the charger is not meeting the demand on the battery. If you want peace of mind, have the amperage draw of the fridge and what ever else would come on in your absence checked and double it and invest in a charger to carry that load. As i said earlier I have a Pronautic 1240 and am impressed with it. On my last boat I had to fill the batteries at least 3 times a season, this year not once. Wi-Fi and Bluetooth will become very useful for monitoring but not a substitute for proper systems. Sorry for the rant but all meant in good faith.

I don't run the fridge or any other 12v things when i leave the boat... it still stops charging. The only thing I am aware of that might run is the bilge pump.. but that shouldnt be enough to have the charger stop charging the house batteries. The starting battery was 100% fine.. 

Grahamu

@J3ff, your first post on this thread said you had the same problem and I assumed you were leaving your fridge on. If you are not leaving anything on what is draining your house batteries and shutting down the charger, hopefully it's not your bilge pump. Does the charger start charging when you return or is the engine(s) charging them. 

J3ff

Pump does not seem to be running but I would expect two group 31s to run it for weeks. I'm in the middle of trying to figure out what is going on. My old charger never had a problem, until it quit. 

aconthelake

@J3ff. Same here. My old ProMariner Prosport 12 never had a problem until it quit. 

The fridge was measured at 4Amps, hence the 10Amp per bank charger. The house are 2 6V golf cart deep cycle in series installed new 2 years ago. The starter is 2018 and is just fine. 

When I go away for 6 weeks, maybe I should shut down the fridge. Due Ly noted and that’s what I did 2 weeks ago. Let’s see next week when I get out there again. 

I’m thinking I will replace the new NOCo’s with an updated ProMarina ProsSport 2.0 44020 which is the same as before but beefier and latest technology. 

I’ll not be bothering with blue tooth and wifi, I just want the charger to charge to newish batteries. 

Thanks to all. 

J3ff

Hmm, one other data point is that mine are wired in a series as well. I did see someone saying that these kinds of chargers have a problem with parallel charging. I wonder if this is the issue. Maybe it's time to take one battery out of the equation. 

YYZRC

J3ff said:

Hmm, one other data point is that mine are wired in a series as well. I did see someone saying that these kinds of chargers have a problem with parallel charging. I wonder if this is the issue. Maybe it's time to take one battery out of the equation. 

You are running 2 6v Group 31 in series?

Grahamu

If they are 12 volt batteries they need to be joined in parallel to maintain 12 volts, that is positive to positive and negative to negative. If they are joined in series you are producing 24 VDC. I have 2 banks of 2 6 volt joined in series to give 12VDC and then joined in parallel to maintain the 12VDC output. I know have a full season on them with no charger problems.

Grahamu

Here is a link to explain it

Understanding Battery Configurations | Battery Stuff

J3ff

Wait, no, I got that mixed up, I've got them in parallel, I believe. They are set exactly the way they were when I bought the boat 4 or so years ago.. 

Which now makes me remember reading a review that said these chargers don't do well in that setup... hmm. 

LaRea

Yes, you've got it right -- 12V batteries in parallel, or 6V batteries in series. 

Either way, in the eyes of the charger, it's just a big 12V battery bank.  If you look inside a single 12V battery, it's just a string of six 2V battery cells connected in series.  The charger is like a honey badger:  charger don't care.  

J3ff

LaRea said:

Yes, you've got it right -- 12V batteries in parallel, or 6V batteries in series. 

Either way, in the eyes of the charger, it's just a big 12V battery bank.  If you look inside a single 12V battery, it's just a string of six 2V battery cells connected in series.  The charger is like a honey badger:  charger don't care.  

You would think that, but a reviewer specifically says that the company said no parallel  connected batteries. This thing must have something that monitors how much is flowing in and just shuts it down at some point? 

Grahamu

The common denominator here is the Novo charger, if the review is about them change to another brand

J3ff

Grabbed this from the amazon warehouse for 98 bucks, there's another for 114 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0821Y69Y2?smid=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1

alex8q4

aconthelake said:

@J3ff. Same here. My old ProMariner Prosport 12 never had a problem until it quit. 

The fridge was measured at 4Amps, hence the 10Amp per bank charger. The house are 2 6V golf cart deep cycle in series installed new 2 years ago. The starter is 2018 and is just fine. 

When I go away for 6 weeks, maybe I should shut down the fridge. Due Ly noted and that’s what I did 2 weeks ago. Let’s see next week when I get out there again. 

I’m thinking I will replace the new NOCo’s with an updated ProMarina ProsSport 2.0 44020 which is the same as before but beefier and latest technology. 

I’ll not be bothering with blue tooth and wifi, I just want the charger to charge to newish batteries. 

Thanks to all. 

I know you said your batteries are still good, but I am leaning towards they were likely destroyed by the old charger last fall.   Not sure how they were tested, but you should put a full charge into them and have them load tested.

I had a NOCO charger hooked to 2-6 volt golf cart batteries on a previous boat with no issues.  I’m not saying it’s absolutely not the charger, but suggesting that you should make absolute sure it’s not the batteries.

Good luck to both of you guys, this would be frustrating for sure.