Kohler Genny

Black_Diamond

A fuel cell would rock.

212rowboat

Aye.. don't get me started.. a six stroke.. there is a six stroke that exists right now that weighs less than fifty pounds... 50lbs... 50#!!!!!... That produces 390hp.. you heard that right... It is displaced around 125cid... I wanna say its a three cylinder based off of a triumph platform.. with computer controlled fuel+h2o injection, there is no reason not to pursue it, except of course for political pressure which is applied by special interest lobbyist.. Grrrrrr...

That engine isn't but air cooled, and at wot after being held there forever, you can put your hand on it and it will be mildly warm.. not cooling required.. it gets about 2/3 better economy than its gasoline cousin.. its silly light and ridiculously small.. your floaters could push 500+hp and get better economy, and longivity..

Black_Diamond

Interesting technology. Steam engines used to do similar with a high and low pressure cycle working both sides of the piston. Rotary valves are another item just not picked up that had a nice power increase too (no camshaft, no lube needed)

LaRea

6-stroke engine -- interesting. 

Lobbyists aside, if any technology offered real gains in fuel economy, the military would jump all over it.  Think of the cost savings.  We burn a LOT of fuel at forward operating bases, and getting it there can cost up to $500/gal.  More importantly, every time somebody drives a fuel truck in a conflict zone, they are risking their lives.  Saving fuel is a Big Deal. 

I spent several years evaluating all sorts of technologies for the Army, including a never-ending stream of novel engines, components and fuel additives that promised to change the world.  Venturi-cooled engines, nano-lubricants ... you name it, we saw it.  Needless to say, we never found a silver bullet.  

For example, Bruce Crower's 6-stroke engine consumes a gallon of distilled water for every gallon of fuel.  Water takes up volume and weight, which negates a lot of the benefit. That's similar to what I saw with other novel engine technologies: they all had some Achilles Heel that made them unattractive.

We need a boat generator that runs on things we always have handy, such as beer and leftover chicken wings ...

Michael T

Too Funny! :-) Get rinker to work on it Captain Steve - want to see it for 2014! MT

212rowboat

I've been either a Marine or working with Marines for almost my entire adult life, except for a six year period i thought it would be a good idea to open a cigar shop... :-)

lowest bidders win contracts, and the more 'commercial off the shelf' an item is, the cheaper and more likely it is that critter will enter the supply system.. there are some purpose built items around, but they are pretty rare..

from a strategic vantage, if you lose a piece of equipment due to failure in a zone, and it becomes paramount for it to be recovered- you'll want an item that can generally utilize commonly available parts and pieces, and that is not argumentative with the quality of fuels, or sometimes the fuel itself.. 7 ton tactical vehicles will operate on JP4 through 8, or dang near anything in between (diesel, Kerosene, freakin' vegetable oil)  :-) .. they run best off of JP8/diesel #2, mind you, but they will run (or can be quickly arranged to run) on dang near anything liquid that is mildly combustive.. that is a huge asset to have 'in country', if and when you don't know where or what your next resup is going to be.. 

the six stroke is possible now with computers fast enough to process alterations in fuel delivery, where as it is/was hard to do without.. using the boat analogy, twin 100CID engines could replace twin 350CID engines- and the horsepower to weight ratio would swing hugely due to their light size and weight.. the biggest reason I interject the 6 stroke is the lack of a need of a cooling system, which is heavy, requires maintenance, and is absolutely paramount to be functioning correctly, or you lose the engine.. an engine that is as light for the power produced, smaller displaced, no cooling, and comparable in power/performance is perfect for a boat, even if you had to carry two fuels..

TikiHut2

LaRea said: "We need a boat generator that runs on things we always have handy, such as beer and leftover chicken wings ..."

Jack Sparrow the famous pirate can be heard crying......NOT the RUM!....OMG.....Not the RUM.... :ar!

LaRea

Hey, we're less than two weeks away from International Talk Like A Pirate Day.  Yarr.

Black_Diamond

Well, knocking on wood here, but after about 8 hours of work on my 5e, it was running today.  I went with the shotgun approach:

* Back flushed heat exchanger (did get 3 impeller pieces out)

*New thermostat

*new Anti-freeze

*new fuel pump (removed the fuel filter at the pump too, I have a 10u filter in-line)

*New exhaust over temp sensor

*New oil pressure sensor

*New anti-deiseling solenoid

I did use a hand pump attached to a fitting on the coolant air vent plug, with the rad cap on and pulled a vacuum to get all the air out.  If just pulls in anti-freze from the overflow bottle, so just add as it sucks it out.  Worked like a charm!

Ran it for an hour with a load and so far so good.

Black_Diamond

So interesting tidbit:  After a good genny run last week, I put the sound shield on and fired her up again.  Ten minutes later off it went again  *&$%#@  Started right back up, but then off again in 5 min or so.  So I pulled the front service panel off the sound shield, no fuel leaks, no coolant leaks hit the start button and again started up and ran for the next 3 hours fine.  So I'm thinking it might not be getting enough air..or..some issue with the insulation pushing against the sparkplug/coolant hose or causing the fuel to vapor lock.  I'm going to try leaving it off, it's no louder with it off.  Might be worth a cheap try for those having problems.

raybo3

These gennys are just to finicky. You would think that for marine use it mwould be user friendly. 

raybo3

So why the **** would a boat company use anything else but a Westerbeke???????????

TikiHut2

Geez BD that's unreal. Anchored at my desk (but wasting time at a pretty good clip)  trying to remember how my Kohler intake is run and if it's an issue with it breathing or heat entrapment when the sound shield is in place. There's a fire extinguisher port on the side of mine and flame containment in a bad situation might be a consideration if it were mine.

At the risk of jinxing mine I'll say that mine is running great but I'll be looking tnite. At only 44hrs in 9yrs it better be running good. There's so much input on the nuances of the Kohler 5E that I'm surprised the common link for so many heartaches hasn't become apparent.

I've seen the Westerbeke genset at the boat shows and they are the current answer to the replacement issue. Mike

Black_Diamond

The bugger is you have to pull the engine to get the genny out. Good to know though if I ever had to pull the port engine to make a swap while it was 'easy'.

 

Tiki: Personally, there is no whay I'd be punching and fire extinguisher through that hole if it caught fire - too hard to get to in that situation I think?, frankly the engine room extinguisher would go off by the time you knew it was burning I think.  The air intake is through the baffeling in the aft cover, I'm guessing the heat entrapment is likely, the copper fuel line runs right across the cyl head.  The 195F temp is not horrible, but so little fuel moves through I could see it vapor locking.  Either way, fired up and ran great again today, but the boat was pulled this afternoon so no more genny discussion until May.

(

TikiHut2

Maybe you should shut off the fuel valve to run the fuel out before it's stowed for the winter with that stuff just turning to shellack in the carb. I keep a generator for hurricane season that only gets fired up for an hour once a year in June. Each time I shut it down I'll run the carb dry then re-fill with fresh gas and it fires up on the first pull every year.

I've heard the argument on carb seals getting dry and moisture accumulating (Lord knows I have some experience with humidity and condensation down here) but it's not a problem yet at 6y/o and thankfully one of the most reliable starts I have.

There may be something unique with that Kohler that'd dislike that but it's a thought.

Sorry about the end of the season for you guys. I can relate when our broiler turns on from June-Sept and the boat sits for 3 solid months. My season just started but rest assured it's still smokin' hot with monsoonal rains even today. Mike

212rowboat

I have malice in my heart for Kawasaki... Ever since the 86 season when I'd saved every scrap of change, dined on oodles of noodles or food lion branded Mac and cheese when I wanted to splurge, and landed a new- first new anything- KX125... Just to be blown off the line and left behind by ALL the field of RMs, CRs, and YZ's... The only ones I saw again were the ones piloted by bad riders who we're piled up.. I've held to that malice ever since.... And kawasaki hasn't really done anything to change.that.


I'd have a Briggs and Stratton and selective use of devices before I'd put up with any kawi slack.. or shove it in the anchor locker, and use it as such.. or... Well... Unless the admiral wanted a/c... Then I'd cuss a lot while I worked on it...

Black_Diamond

In the mower world, the Kawasaki's kick B&S butt. We work with mower manufacturers and run them in house too. But a big difference between a constant rpm engine and for a motorcycle. CR's rule!

212rowboat

CR's are hot, and always have been... they were the bombdigity in '86 after overhauling their design.. they were the ones to beat.. Suzi came out with a new design on the 80cc class that year, and the next carried it to the 135/25/500 classes- those things were QUICK, and had a DEEP powerband.. the next year CR caught back up, and I don't think 'they' ever looked back..

kawi's, as curious as this comment is in light of this thread, are known in motorcycle circles as under-performers (save this years Ninja@ 205+mph), but also as reliable and long lasting machines..

212rowboat

that formula you (i think it was you) interjected into the 'how much gas to store' thread changes when ethanol is present, and to a startling degree- it reacts and expands to heat quicker and more... a chemist or physicist I'm not, so I don't know how to figure..

a lot of drag racers put cooled fuel cells on their rigs, as in active cooling, not passive like a tube and fin exchanges.. those things aren't light in weight, and therefor detract a decent margin from their HP to weight ratio... they still use them, which should tell us something about cool fuel...

I've never touched one of these gensets.. something BD said about a heat-shield and about a fuel line passing near the cylinder head caught my attention, though... and it isn't about vapor locking as much as it is about pressures... dramatically expanding fuel creates dramatic pressure increases at the point of injection (if using a FI system).. I've fought that before in another application.. everything checked out- the pick up pump was within tolerances, the high pressure pump was within tolerances, and the rail (at the schrader port) was dead nuts... it was the even bank that didn't have a heat shield and the air induction housing supplying insulation to the fuel rail that was heating the fuel within... you wouldn't think that it being there for only a second or two max would cook it, (and it really didn't), but it was enough to increase pressure at the injector (which equates to higher volume of injection) enough to trip a contribution code... 

the same principle holds true with carb'd induction, it's more centric to characteristics of the fuel escaping the jets, though...

i'd find it a PITA to spend the $$ just to experiment, but... installing a longer fuel line circumventing heat sources may reduce these issues y'all are seeing... another thing that could be done (quicker/cheaper) is to wrap a layer of header wrap around them, and then one of those shiny heat shield fabric thingies used for protecting spark plug wires on dressed engines that route the wire near the block/heads/exhaust...

quality header wrap is designed to keep heat in and engine compartments cooler as an aside.. and to promote scavenging of exhaust pulses- note: quality-... it is designed to see temperatures north of 800*... I'd wager it would be more than adequate for insulating that fuel line over that short run across the cylinder head.

Black_Diamond

Thanks Drew, I'll look into the header tape idea, can't hurt.  I have no idea why one would route the copper fuel line over the cylinder head except to save a buck of course.  I might pull off the end of the sound shield where the air intake side is and take out the insulation to free up the air flow.  The intake when all assembled is offset from the spark arrestor and just a small louvered area, it looks like a cumbersome air flow path to me.  Guess I'll know more in the spring when I relaunch

212rowboat

give it a shot, man...

I should correct what I said about +pressure = +volume.. when we're talking liquids, this is true.. it is not true when you cook a fuel line, and then squirt it either by injector or by jet.. what happens is the controlled release loses it's engineered characteristics, and sprays in a manner that is incompatible with proper operation...

it would be hard to spot, I'd wager, on an injector.. on a jet/carb, though, I'm thinking it will be evidenced by deposits on the throat..