Engine misfires at 4k rpm

trimmkm

This has been our first season with a 2015 Captiva 236CC, 350 Mag with Bravo 3, about 200 hours on the engine.  We first noticed a miss in the engine at around 4k rpm.  Eventually the alarm would sound continually when the engine would start misfiring, until the throttle was brought back to idle.  We installed a VV Mobile to see if we could capture an engine fault.  To date, we only captured one notification, Guardian mode (image below). 

Seeing the list of fault codes on another thread, there is a limited number of conditions that generates a constant alarm, most of them related to cooling.  Is there anything in this notification that tells the fault code?  Is the 2011-23 a fault code?

skennelly

VVM is not a diagnostic tool unfortunately.  You need a scanner tool to truly know what's going on.

J3ff

skennelly said:

VVM is not a diagnostic tool unfortunately.  You need a scanner tool to truly know what's going on.

Well that explains why I have some kind of alarm that VVM shows nothing about. I turn the key, without starting the engine and it starts beeping real loud. Start the engine up and before VVM can connect it stops beeping. No clue what is going on. Oil pressure is fine, temp is good, etc. 

Ian

J3ff said:

skennelly said:

VVM is not a diagnostic tool unfortunately.  You need a scanner tool to truly know what's going on.

Well that explains why I have some kind of alarm that VVM shows nothing about. I turn the key, without starting the engine and it starts beeping real loud. Start the engine up and before VVM can connect it stops beeping. No clue what is going on. Oil pressure is fine, temp is good, etc. 

How many beeps t what interval?

Ian

Mine had this issue prior to purchase and part of sale was to fix. Ended up being high pressure fuel pump apparently.

rasbury

Mine peeps loudly everytime I turn the ignition on- assume its no low oil pressure since it's not running?

LaRea

When you turn on the ignition, it beeps once to prove that the beep speaker is working.  

@trimmkm - welcome to the forum!  What happens after the alarm stops?  Can you get back on plane immediately, or do you need to wait a few minutes?

aero3113

Also, my depth finder beeps when the key is turned to the on position.

trimmkm

LaRea said:

When you turn on the ignition, it beeps once to prove that the beep speaker is working.  

@trimmkm - welcome to the forum!  What happens after the alarm stops?  Can you get back on plane immediately, or do you need to wait a few minutes?

Thank you for the welcome.  Once, we had the engine quit on us, but we were able to start it again right away.  Typically once the throttle is reduced (not necessarily to idle), the alarm stops, and we can get back on plane immediately, no noticeable reduction in power.  Once, when the misfiring started, we kept on the throttle and were able to "power through" the misfiring and approach WOT.  

The alarm has sounded on multiple occasions, but only once did a notification pop up in VVM.  Watching oil pressure on VVM, it does not drop when this happens.  I have not watched the cooling pressure during these episodes.  I'm wondering if the engine misfires enough such that the sea pump pressure drops, triggering the alarm.  Is the constant alarm a secondary symptom, not part of the root cause.  Thoughts?

YYZRC

What is the history of the boat?  What regular maintenance has been performed and when?  Assuming it is used in salt water - is the engine closed cooling?

Impeller
Cap/Rotor
Fuel Filters

LaRea

Going back to what @skennelly said - VVM doesn't see every sensor, and it doesn't report every type of fault.  You might need to get the engine scanned with a real engine scanner (like a Rinda). 

mvn

Just a general comment.... 2011-23 as shown above is a VVM code, but for what?  Why is it so hard to find out what these codes mean?

Even beep codes (audible alarms), why so secretive?   I finally got a Rinda to help diagnose my recent issues and it worked out great.  I now have 4 different scan tools in my toolbox for diagnosing automotive engines, TPMS systems, automotive transmissions and now marine engines.  Next on the list will be a scan tool for my ATV.

Mark 

YYZRC

mvn said:

Just a general comment.... 2011-23 as shown above is a VVM code, but for what?  Why is it so hard to find out what these codes mean?

Even beep codes (audible alarms), why so secretive?

So you return to the dealer for service. 

mvn

YYZRC said:

mvn said:

Just a general comment.... 2011-23 as shown above is a VVM code, but for what?  Why is it so hard to find out what these codes mean?

Even beep codes (audible alarms), why so secretive?

So you return to the dealer for service. 

Yes, but I'm one of those guys that has to be self sufficient.  Given the short seasons we have, I'd rather invest in tools than pay dealers!  Sorry to hijack this thread. 

Mark 

rasbury

Have not studied it, but there is a lengthy explanation fir rhe beeps...you have to read through it, it looks like it would be a help.

rasbury

Yea I was going for the maintenance stuff...might be a wire pulled somewhere..bad sensor.. but missfire- check and see if the plug wires are on good- we (and I ) get freaked out real quick and always go to the worst thoughts!

trimmkm

YYZRC said:

What is the history of the boat?  What regular maintenance has been performed and when?  Assuming it is used in salt water - is the engine closed cooling?

Impeller
Cap/Rotor
Fuel Filters

So, my father-in-law bought the boat this past spring.  I have the fortunate luck to get to put hours on it, I’m trying to help out with maintenance. I don’t have much detail on its history.  As far as I know, we are the third owners.  The previous owner had the boat winterized by the local dealer at the end of last season.  It has an open cooling system, we mostly boat on a fresh water river.  

YYZRC

If it was my boat, I would act on the assumption that everything is original and replace cap/rotor, plugs, fuel filters, impeller and of course change the oil.

rasbury

I agree- you have to have a baseline to start. I'm no mechanic but I'm not aware of bad plugs etc causing guardian mode- but again you might find something else awry when you get down there messing with it. Then you can get a scanner on it if need be and get down to those issues- but start there.  

trimmkm

We replaced fluids and filters last week while winterizing.  We figured out how to removed part of the bench seat to get better access to the engine, so replacing the impeller seems more DIY friendly now.  We’ll tackle that in the spring.  

@YYZRC I made that point while winterizing, we don’t know if/when maintenance was last done, assume it wasn’t.

@rasbury, a scanner would definitely be the answer.  It seems to be an intermittent problem, in fact my FIL had never experienced it until the end of the season.  And yes, my mind goes to the worst possible scenarios with expensive sensors/modules on these engines.  

mvn

rasbury said:

I agree- you have to have a baseline to start. I'm no mechanic but I'm not aware of bad plugs etc causing guardian mode- but again you might find something else awry when you get down there messing with it. Then you can get a scanner on it if need be and get down to those issues- but start there.  

Funny thing was..... Engine Protection mode was triggered on my Volvo after getting misfire and lean codes.  The issue was a dead plug so I wouldn't necessarily discount that. 

Mark 

Grahamu

@mvn, This was posted by @LaRea back in 2015, not sure it will help with codes on your engine

YYZRC

rasbury said:

I agree- you have to have a baseline to start. I'm no mechanic but I'm not aware of bad plugs etc causing guardian mode- but again you might find something else awry when you get down there messing with it. Then you can get a scanner on it if need be and get down to those issues- but start there.  

It's not so much about the plugs causing guardian mode, although as @mvn mentioned that happened to him with his Volvo.  My recommendation to change the plugs is based on the relatively low cost and the fact that it gets you looking for other things (corroded plug wire, etc).  My boat has 200 hours and I have had two bad plugs.

rasbury

Exactly- rule out the simple stuff since there is no service history and see what you run across while your doing that stuff.

trimmkm

I found some posts on FB by our boat's first owner.  It seems like he started having problems with the engine loosing power with about 160 hours on the engine.  He replaced the fuel filters (cool fuel module), a scan of the engine suggested a camshaft position was at fault.  He replaced the sensor, rotor, and distributor cap.  The problem persisted, and he then replaced the crank sensor.  He claimed this fixed the problem.

We now have 220 hours on the engine, and are still seeing a similar problem.  In the spring we'll have to scan the engine again. 

trimmkm

I have come across a video of someone using the VVM to diagnose their engine trouble, and they show pics of the fault code tables from a service manual.  2011-23 is a legitimate fault code, but simply states guardian mode is active due to a separate fault… not very useful.  But good to know traceable fault codes are visible in VVM.  

I have found a Mercruiser TechMate for sale locally.  I don’t know what version of firmware is on it yet. Anybody have experience with this scanning tool?

mvn

This?

https://www.rinda.com/marine/mtspec.htm

It looks like support only goes to 2012 on this version.  You may be better off getting the upgraded tool or get the Diacom software if you have a laptop.

Mark

LaRea

@Ian mentioned this product recently:  the 555 Scan from ODB Diagnostics.  I haven't used it, but seems to offer the same features as the Rinda for a very affordable $300.  You'd need a laptop or tablet computer to run it.

Your Merc 350 Mag has the ECM 555 module, so it should be compatible.

https://obd2allinone.com/555scan.asp

mvn

Hmmm..... I show a PCM-09 by Visteon for that era, not the 555.  I could be totally wrong..... OP will have to confirm.

Mark 

YYZRC

Labor rate at a marina in Ontario is around $150/hr, I assume similar out east.  I'd spend $150 and have a tech read the code(s) and provide advice, especially given that the boat's history is somewhat unknown.  Throwing money at a code reader and then trying to interpret the codes when, as you pointed out, it's hard to decipher them based on what you can find online is a bit of a crap shoot.

trimmkm

Here are some pics of the ECU… based on matching photos online, it looks like a ECM555.  I can’t find anything definitive based on the labeling; ECM0718 doesn’t return many matches in Google.

I found out the Mercruiser TechMate has Ver 5 firmware.  Ver 6 was the most recent firmware before it was discontinued.