Engine misfires at 4k rpm

trimmkmtrimmkm Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 9
This has been our first season with a 2015 Captiva 236CC, 350 Mag with Bravo 3, about 200 hours on the engine.  We first noticed a miss in the engine at around 4k rpm.  Eventually the alarm would sound continually when the engine would start misfiring, until the throttle was brought back to idle.  We installed a VV Mobile to see if we could capture an engine fault.  To date, we only captured one notification, Guardian mode (image below). 

Seeing the list of fault codes on another thread, there is a limited number of conditions that generates a constant alarm, most of them related to cooling.  Is there anything in this notification that tells the fault code?  Is the 2011-23 a fault code?





Comments

  • skennellyskennelly ChicagoMember Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭✭
    VVM is not a diagnostic tool unfortunately.  You need a scanner tool to truly know what's going on.
    2002 - 270FV Mag 350 B3
  • J3ffJ3ff Member Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭✭✭
    skennelly said:
    VVM is not a diagnostic tool unfortunately.  You need a scanner tool to truly know what's going on.
    Well that explains why I have some kind of alarm that VVM shows nothing about. I turn the key, without starting the engine and it starts beeping real loud. Start the engine up and before VVM can connect it stops beeping. No clue what is going on. Oil pressure is fine, temp is good, etc. 
  • IanIan Niskayuna NYMember Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭✭
    J3ff said:
    skennelly said:
    VVM is not a diagnostic tool unfortunately.  You need a scanner tool to truly know what's going on.
    Well that explains why I have some kind of alarm that VVM shows nothing about. I turn the key, without starting the engine and it starts beeping real loud. Start the engine up and before VVM can connect it stops beeping. No clue what is going on. Oil pressure is fine, temp is good, etc. 
    How many beeps t what interval?

    Regards,

    Ian

    The Third “B”

    Ravena Coeymans Yacht Club

    https://www.rcyachtclub.com/

  • IanIan Niskayuna NYMember Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭✭
    Mine had this issue prior to purchase and part of sale was to fix. Ended up being high pressure fuel pump apparently.

    Regards,

    Ian

    The Third “B”

    Ravena Coeymans Yacht Club

    https://www.rcyachtclub.com/

  • rasburyrasbury Sanford, FLMember Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mine peeps loudly everytime I turn the ignition on- assume its no low oil pressure since it's not running?
  • LaReaLaRea Alexandria VirginiaMember Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When you turn on the ignition, it beeps once to prove that the beep speaker is working.  

    @trimmkm - welcome to the forum!  What happens after the alarm stops?  Can you get back on plane immediately, or do you need to wait a few minutes?
  • aero3113aero3113 Long Island, NYMember Posts: 8,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also, my depth finder beeps when the key is turned to the on position.
    2008 330EC
  • trimmkmtrimmkm Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 9
    LaRea said:
    When you turn on the ignition, it beeps once to prove that the beep speaker is working.  

    @trimmkm - welcome to the forum!  What happens after the alarm stops?  Can you get back on plane immediately, or do you need to wait a few minutes?
    Thank you for the welcome.  Once, we had the engine quit on us, but we were able to start it again right away.  Typically once the throttle is reduced (not necessarily to idle), the alarm stops, and we can get back on plane immediately, no noticeable reduction in power.  Once, when the misfiring started, we kept on the throttle and were able to "power through" the misfiring and approach WOT.  

    The alarm has sounded on multiple occasions, but only once did a notification pop up in VVM.  Watching oil pressure on VVM, it does not drop when this happens.  I have not watched the cooling pressure during these episodes.  I'm wondering if the engine misfires enough such that the sea pump pressure drops, triggering the alarm.  Is the constant alarm a secondary symptom, not part of the root cause.  Thoughts?
  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What is the history of the boat?  What regular maintenance has been performed and when?  Assuming it is used in salt water - is the engine closed cooling?

    Impeller
    Cap/Rotor
    Fuel Filters
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • LaReaLaRea Alexandria VirginiaMember Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Going back to what @skennelly said - VVM doesn't see every sensor, and it doesn't report every type of fault.  You might need to get the engine scanned with a real engine scanner (like a Rinda). 
  • mvnmvn Uxbridge, OntarioMember, Moderator Posts: 730 mod
    Just a general comment.... 2011-23 as shown above is a VVM code, but for what?  Why is it so hard to find out what these codes mean?

    Even beep codes (audible alarms), why so secretive?   I finally got a Rinda to help diagnose my recent issues and it worked out great.  I now have 4 different scan tools in my toolbox for diagnosing automotive engines, TPMS systems, automotive transmissions and now marine engines.  Next on the list will be a scan tool for my ATV.

    Mark 
    Good,  fast,  cheap.... pick two. 
    2019 MTX20 Extreme

  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mvn said:
    Just a general comment.... 2011-23 as shown above is a VVM code, but for what?  Why is it so hard to find out what these codes mean?

    Even beep codes (audible alarms), why so secretive?
    So you return to the dealer for service. 
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • mvnmvn Uxbridge, OntarioMember, Moderator Posts: 730 mod
    YYZRC said:
    mvn said:
    Just a general comment.... 2011-23 as shown above is a VVM code, but for what?  Why is it so hard to find out what these codes mean?

    Even beep codes (audible alarms), why so secretive?
    So you return to the dealer for service. 
    Yes, but I'm one of those guys that has to be self sufficient.  Given the short seasons we have, I'd rather invest in tools than pay dealers!  Sorry to hijack this thread. 

    Mark 
    Good,  fast,  cheap.... pick two. 
    2019 MTX20 Extreme

  • rasburyrasbury Sanford, FLMember Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have not studied it, but there is a lengthy explanation fir rhe beeps...you have to read through it, it looks like it would be a help.
  • rasburyrasbury Sanford, FLMember Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yea I was going for the maintenance stuff...might be a wire pulled somewhere..bad sensor.. but missfire- check and see if the plug wires are on good- we (and I ) get freaked out real quick and always go to the worst thoughts!
  • trimmkmtrimmkm Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 9
    YYZRC said:
    What is the history of the boat?  What regular maintenance has been performed and when?  Assuming it is used in salt water - is the engine closed cooling?

    Impeller
    Cap/Rotor
    Fuel Filters
    So, my father-in-law bought the boat this past spring.  I have the fortunate luck to get to put hours on it, I’m trying to help out with maintenance. I don’t have much detail on its history.  As far as I know, we are the third owners.  The previous owner had the boat winterized by the local dealer at the end of last season.  It has an open cooling system, we mostly boat on a fresh water river.  
  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it was my boat, I would act on the assumption that everything is original and replace cap/rotor, plugs, fuel filters, impeller and of course change the oil.
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • rasburyrasbury Sanford, FLMember Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree- you have to have a baseline to start. I'm no mechanic but I'm not aware of bad plugs etc causing guardian mode- but again you might find something else awry when you get down there messing with it. Then you can get a scanner on it if need be and get down to those issues- but start there.  
  • trimmkmtrimmkm Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 9
    We replaced fluids and filters last week while winterizing.  We figured out how to removed part of the bench seat to get better access to the engine, so replacing the impeller seems more DIY friendly now.  We’ll tackle that in the spring.  

    @YYZRC I made that point while winterizing, we don’t know if/when maintenance was last done, assume it wasn’t.

    @rasbury, a scanner would definitely be the answer.  It seems to be an intermittent problem, in fact my FIL had never experienced it until the end of the season.  And yes, my mind goes to the worst possible scenarios with expensive sensors/modules on these engines.  
  • mvnmvn Uxbridge, OntarioMember, Moderator Posts: 730 mod
    rasbury said:
    I agree- you have to have a baseline to start. I'm no mechanic but I'm not aware of bad plugs etc causing guardian mode- but again you might find something else awry when you get down there messing with it. Then you can get a scanner on it if need be and get down to those issues- but start there.  
    Funny thing was..... Engine Protection mode was triggered on my Volvo after getting misfire and lean codes.  The issue was a dead plug so I wouldn't necessarily discount that. 

    Mark 
    Good,  fast,  cheap.... pick two. 
    2019 MTX20 Extreme

  • GrahamuGrahamu Lefroy, Lake Simcoe, ON, CDAMember Posts: 743 ✭✭✭
    @mvn, This was posted by @LaRea back in 2015, not sure it will help with codes on your engine


  • YYZRCYYZRC Georgian BayMember Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭✭✭
    rasbury said:
    I agree- you have to have a baseline to start. I'm no mechanic but I'm not aware of bad plugs etc causing guardian mode- but again you might find something else awry when you get down there messing with it. Then you can get a scanner on it if need be and get down to those issues- but start there.  
    It's not so much about the plugs causing guardian mode, although as @mvn mentioned that happened to him with his Volvo.  My recommendation to change the plugs is based on the relatively low cost and the fact that it gets you looking for other things (corroded plug wire, etc).  My boat has 200 hours and I have had two bad plugs.
    2008 350 EC on Georgian Bay
  • rasburyrasbury Sanford, FLMember Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Exactly- rule out the simple stuff since there is no service history and see what you run across while your doing that stuff.
  • trimmkmtrimmkm Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 9
    I found some posts on FB by our boat's first owner.  It seems like he started having problems with the engine loosing power with about 160 hours on the engine.  He replaced the fuel filters (cool fuel module), a scan of the engine suggested a camshaft position was at fault.  He replaced the sensor, rotor, and distributor cap.  The problem persisted, and he then replaced the crank sensor.  He claimed this fixed the problem.

    We now have 220 hours on the engine, and are still seeing a similar problem.  In the spring we'll have to scan the engine again. 
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